Comments for Brazil Air Tragedy: US Pilots Talk. Where Were the Controllers, They Ask at http://www.brazzilmag.com , comment 0 to 14 out of 14 comments http://www.brazzilmag.com Thu, 08 Jan 2009 11:18:04 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.2 http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/7682/1/#pc_17372 NOW THEY ARE ALL DEAD..............AND THE AMERICAN PILOTS FLYING WITH THEIR TRANSPORDER ON NOW. MURDERERS. - cgirard Thu, 02 Oct 2008 16:16:25 +0100 http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/7682/1/#pc_6392 I have to say realgivp that you are my hero on this whole problem. Thank you so much for your contributions. Be sure your efforts will stand for the future. I really hope, givp that American pilots and everyone involved in aviation activities really learn something useful from this all tragedy and that they can work in peace and with security. Thank you for your efforts for clarification, it seems this whole thing became an American subject and not a matter of security and ethics. Thank you for your efforts of making our lives safer. Você foi demais! All the best. Sincerely - wilka paulistana da gema Sun, 07 Jan 2007 00:54:35 +0100 http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/7682/1/#pc_6360 を見張る, 警戒する tenha um dia agradável - realgivp Tue, 02 Jan 2007 14:50:27 +0100 http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/7682/1/#pc_6249 I post so that the intelligent, truth seekers, people who know that aviation accidents do not occur because of just one thing and those interested in reading all view points have a knowledgeable source inside the aviation community to go to. There are way too many of people here with their own axes to grind, distorters, xenophobes’ , people working for excel, and or their family friends work at excel or certain journalists. Or the just plain ignorant and/or stupid or people with nothing better to do. Since you posted on Christmas Day I’ll leave it to the people on the board to figure out which community(ies) you belong to. Personally I have no interest in communicating with you since I feel you belong in the second paragraph’s group. - realgivp Tue, 26 Dec 2006 18:58:56 +0100 http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/7682/1/#pc_6237 And just because you are posting doesn´t mean you are communicating with me. - Rick Mon, 25 Dec 2006 15:25:13 +0100 http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/7682/1/#pc_6166 Internationally (especially with the implementation of RVSM) it is next to impossible to fly at the wrong altitude for the wrong direction. Almost all countries will not allow this except for weather or fuel and even then it is fairly rare. In Canada the only time I’ve gotten a “wrong” altitude for the direction is at FL450 (45000 feet) going westbound coming back from Europe and that was only because of weather. The fact is there are no airplanes up there, especially going eastbound to Europe, but those are the rules and they adhere to them; especially in countries where English is not the first language. The flying I did in Brazil (and granted the last time was 8 years ago before RVSM) you were still expected to fly the right altitude for the right direction. It was, and still is, the pilot’s responsibility to clarify when to comply with a change in altitude. I feel that Lepore and Paladino’s asking a general “should we stay at FL370” before BRS gave the wrong impression to ATC, as well as to the pilots themselves. ATC said to “maintain” and probably the thinking was that they were going to have them stay at the right altitude and then be changed to the correct altitude for direction after BRS. The pilots erroneously assumed that that meant for the route after BRS flying at the wrong altitude for the direction of flight. You must at all times be exactly sure of what is going on, what to expect and what ATC expects. Asking non-specific questions or not clarifying routes, altitudes etc. when different then the rules is complacency at best. It is not only unprofessional; it is downright dangerous and reckless. One last thought on communication: When you have not been in contact with ATC for over an hour and have made numerous calls, you have to assume that you have lost communication and start to follow the lost communication procedures. Also, it is disingenuous to say that because you heard ATC that the radio was working perfectly. Maybe your receiver was working, but not your transmitter. Maybe both had failed. Maybe your receiver failed but not your transmitter. Just because you heard them doesn’t mean that you are communicating with ATC. - realgivp Thu, 21 Dec 2006 00:57:20 +0100 http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/7682/1/#pc_6165 As I read the interview with the pilots, I am now more firmly convinced that everything that I have posted on this board is accurate. I feel that while Brazil ATC can be faulted, the pilots were not trained adequately in international procedures, and should also accept responsibility for their role in this tragedy. The 99% figure (that all airplanes file one altitude and fly another) that some have grasped onto is disingenuous at best. That’s lumping US domestic flying and international flying along with flying at the correct altitude for direction of flight. It’s mixing apples and oranges. These two gentlemen have almost no international experience. In the US you can change your altitude from the filed altitude for many reasons: better winds, smoother ride, someone is already at that altitude and there is not the necessary distance in trail, weight of the airplane, temperature, etc. That is for the altitudes for the direction of travel, basically even altitudes westbound and odd altitudes eastbound. That is NOT true for flying the wrong altitude for the wrong direction, i.e. FL370 (37000) going westbound. It is basically impossible to get that clearance in the US below FL400 (40,000 feet). Above FL400 you can get that kind of clearance depending on traffic, workload, etc. The biggest reason for this is because there are very few airplanes flying at those levels. Also, when you are flying and you change direction from one direction even/odd altitude to a direction of odd/even altitude, you expect to change altitude to comply with RVSM. - realgivp Thu, 21 Dec 2006 00:56:33 +0100 http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/7682/1/#pc_6148 For an accident to happen, there are many failures although it is human nature to want a simple reason, such as the flippant american pilots did it. Seing the news in the aftermath of the accident was like seeing a lynching about to happen over overwrought emotions! The ATC did screw up, and did so badly but I dont understand the comments made by the pilots that they didnt think another plane was involved but then asked about another plane upon landing...also, I stil dont understand why the anti-collision devices on both planes didnt work and why the Brazilian government doesnt do somthing about the "holes" over the Amazon that everyone knoes exists in the traffic system but noone wants the responsibility to change...... - Joseph Wed, 20 Dec 2006 10:18:40 +0100 http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/7682/1/#pc_6137 you may have something there interesting and quite revealing.keep posting your line of thoughts - andy murphy Mon, 18 Dec 2006 21:26:18 +0100 http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/7682/1/#pc_6134 ....that not one forum member raises questions or make comments OF WHAT THE BRAZILIANS ATCs DID WRONG based on the US pilots interview ! Despite this was well commented, proven by the Brazilians news, revelations and investigations. I know nothing on piloting, but it is quite strange that some of you, apparent "experts" dont make a comment if it is effectively as frequent as 99 % of the time that pilots are given a different height altitude instruction than the original flight plan. - ch.c. Mon, 18 Dec 2006 20:05:19 +0100 http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/7682/1/#pc_6131 I AM WITH ED on this one Why would ask something if it never crossed your mind i the first place. has any body seen pic of the plane at the military base with all this going on there should be some some where . and where did the wings make contact ????? - Allen Brown Mon, 18 Dec 2006 14:37:59 +0100 http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/7682/1/#pc_6129 How can these pilots make the statemennt that: Lepore answered: "We did not see a thing." And Paladino added: "At first we had no idea something had hit us. We couldn't even imagine hitting another plane and still be here alive. We thought that what we had experienced was due to the plane's structural failure. Nobody could imagine that another plane had hit us. and than go on to say: Paladino - Soon after we landed at the Cachimbo base we met some military men, but with the exception of one nobody spoke English. The first thing we asked him was if he had received any emergency call from another aircraft. 'Please, tell us'. And he said: 'No, we haven't heard a thing.' And we felt a tremendous relief, thinking that there was no other plane involved in that. Jesus Christ, why would you ask that question if it never crossed your mind that you had a collision with another plane. I do not think thier lawyer was very wise in permitting that interview. With these statements thier problems are sure to continue!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - Ed Mon, 18 Dec 2006 12:37:53 +0100 http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/7682/1/#pc_6128 Here another example how these guys spread lies José Wilson Miranda, the writer: "the flight controllers in São José dos Campos - the place from where the Legacy left - had given instructions to the pilots to fly at 37,000 feet all the way to Manaus. " Records shown Sao Jose controllers giving the pilots green light to take off and fly at 37000 feet. They never mention "all the way to Manaus" neither the word "Manaus". What a bunch of liers. - Jayson Blair Mon, 18 Dec 2006 11:53:50 +0100 http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/7682/1/#pc_6127 There would've been 163 people dead if it wasn't for the heroic actions taken by these two pilots! They remained calm and landed their plane safely keeping all onboard alive! It's a tragedy that so many people died in the Gol airplane, but after these pilots getting blamed for the accident before an investigation even being made, being held for over two months and apparently trying to be made look like flippant american pilots who caused this accident on purpose by the brazilian military, it's 100% understandable why they were given a "welcome home" as they were. - bo Mon, 18 Dec 2006 09:49:33 +0100