Comments for Brazil's Boeing Tragedy: Transcript Shows US Pilot Lost and Then Taking a Nap at http://www.brazzilmag.com , comment 0 to 20 out of 21 comments http://www.brazzilmag.com Wed, 07 Jan 2009 21:45:00 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.2 http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/8325/54/#pc_9646 That’s why charter operators spend as little money as they can on aircraft training, recurrent training in international procedures, etc. They do this because it costs them money that they either don’t have or don’t want to spend out of their pockets. And the fly by night ones pencil in the training saving not only time but keeping the pilots flying trips on days when they would have been in training. The FAA is overworked and understaffed and can’t possibly keep track of everyone. The underhanded charter operators establish a good relationship with their POI so that they are not closely inspected and can get away with this until an accident or incident occurs. Of course having penciled in the training and getting the pilots (who need the jobs) to go along with this they can continue to operate outside the legal limits. And Embraer just wants to sell planes as any plane manufacturer would. THAT’S THE SIMPLE ECONOMICS. - realgivp Sun, 17 Jun 2007 18:23:40 +0100 http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/8325/54/#pc_9566 Why are people even debating this dumb article? Its really a joke. Oh they did tricks, oh they slept, oh they didn't follow their flight plan... Oh they didn't know how to fly the plane. Common. I doubt Embrare or ExcelAire would allow these pilots to fly this extremely expensive plane if they didn't know how to fly it... - Its simple economics Tue, 12 Jun 2007 00:50:26 +0100 http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/8325/54/#pc_9528 "Cariocas are just a bunch of corruption lovers, thieves" From what I've seen it is a strange balance in views, actions, re-actions and public image control that is exercised in Estado do Rio but I wouldn't call them out like this. Eu carioca do coracao so. I have a deep and abiding passion for a few carioca's I know and would not classify their positions as lovers of corruption. Most certainly there are thieves as is the case anywhere. Guess expressing these things as "brasileiro" might be more appropriate, something is there / you desire it or it is good for you personnally so you just take it, you don't ask / you don't wait for permission, there's no thought nor time of contemplation. After, there's never a discussion of the past and what might or might not have been done correctly or in a different or better way. Gosh I miss the spontenaeity already. - Simpleton Sat, 09 Jun 2007 00:23:34 +0100 http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/8325/54/#pc_9523 [quote]Yessssssss....you LOVE crooks, cheaters and liars. This, the WHOLE WORLD KNOWS ! Is that not why you have elected Lula, and even re-elected him ![/quote] Sorry, but the south and southeast didn't elected him, I didn't elected him. The problem lies in the fact that the northeast, with his volume of uneducated, controlled by oligarchies people decides who will be the majority of our congress man (and president). Rio creates that kind of problem too, despite being in the southeast, but for different reasons. Cariocas are just a bunch of corruption lovers, thieves, with the "malandro" mentality. I don't care if I'm not politically correct. That's the true, despite the generalization. It's not a matter of whether there are compentent prepared people to handle a proper and fair investigation from within Brazil, it's that such people are not in power and will not be heard by the Brazilian populace in general. Those that are competent, well trained, educated at or above the equivalent level found elsewhere in the world (and, I might add, incredibly intelligent), won't be heard and won't have any influence whatsoever on the goings on in the CPI. Heck, they wouldn't even listen to the top end of the FAB who operates worldwide and runs the infrastructure there. That's true. I don't agree with no CPI. they just put up a show for people to see and vote for them. it all should be run by the PF, or the MP, or, in this case, by the Air force. You should see the questions they did to Constantino Junior, owner and CEO of Gol. They were asking about the "goiabinhas" served on the flights, for Christ sake! Just to add my 2 cents: The whole thing was all going in the direction to put the blame on the ATC's when the investigation "got hot", until they opened the black box... - "Magnus Brasil" Fri, 08 Jun 2007 18:42:40 +0100 http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/8325/54/#pc_9512 Maggie Braun - you do understand that denying the guilt of the ATC and the government's care for the equipment, facilities, procedural control, training, oversight, funding, etc., etc., is exactly what the world see's your government and sensational press spokesmen doing? They don't have to openly and explicitly state that as their intention for everyone to know that that is what it is they are doing (although some actually have gone beligerantly explicit and wrong on occasion which ch.c will repeatedly point out.) It's not a matter of whether there are compentent prepared people to handle a proper and fair investigation from within Brazil, it's that such people are not in power and will not be heard by the Brazilian populace in general. Those that are competent, well trained, educated at or above the equivalent level found elsewhere in the world (and, I might add, incredibly intelligent), won't be heard and won't have any influence whatsoever on the goings on in the CPI. Heck, they wouldn't even listen to the top end of the FAB who operates worldwide and runs the infrastructure there. - Simpleton Fri, 08 Jun 2007 05:19:18 +0100 http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/8325/54/#pc_9504 [quote]Except that he has absolutely NO experience in army or defense ! [/quote] Sure, he has experience in DEFENCE. Defending his job. - João da Silva Thu, 07 Jun 2007 22:56:06 +0100 http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/8325/54/#pc_9501 Except that he has absolutely NO experience in army or defense ! He was named Defense Minister not so long ago. Strange rock of Gibraltar. You better re-read his past jobs ! Yessssssss....you LOVE crooks, cheaters and liars. This, the WHOLE WORLD KNOWS ! Is that not why you have elected Lula, and even re-elected him ! Is that not why you have elected and re-elected many politicians, found guilty of many corruptions practices, but of course pardoned by the other senators....in a secret vote ? Yesssssss.....lying, cheating and corrupted people are the ones beloved by Brazilians ! It is in your education and your genes. Therefore it will be an heresy to believe that Brazil will change for the better. Aand you demonstrate it on a daily basis ! Enjoy Your Rotten Tropical Mud ! - ch.c. Thu, 07 Jun 2007 21:44:44 +0100 http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/8325/54/#pc_9497 First they were doing "tricks in the air" Now they were "sleeping". Because of Captain Joe Leopore' phrase: "I'm going to easy", that phase was translated to portuguese as "I'm going to take a nap". Next, He stand up and went to aircraft toilet and He stood there for 16 minutes. All congressmen have thought Joe Lepore was taking a brief sleep and He had left his colleague,Co-pilot Jan Paladino alone in cockpit. - George Rock Thu, 07 Jun 2007 20:10:02 +0100 http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/8325/54/#pc_9496 All I wish is that that the truth comes out finally so that the souls of those 154 people on board the Gol 1907 come to rest in peace. I don't think that I am asking too much. It's a nice thing to wish, João, as long as the pilots could assume their share of guilty. Of course that CPI it's a political thing, and personally I would like that some more prepared people could take care of the investigations. These politics are being oriented, the problem is that they want to be on the "vitrine". They were not denying the guilty of the ATC's, but for the pilots were no angels too. Sorry if it may sounds strange, but by these comments you're kind of offending people here, assuming that in Brasil would be no prepared people to handle a proper, fair investigation and they are all politically compromised, since they put part of the blame on the pilots. The sad thing is to know that in North American media they're depicting the pilots as the good guys the saved half a dozen people, and are the victims of the lawless land of Brasil. why is so difficult for North Americans accept that they re pilots MAY BE, and just may be, guilty? - "Magnus Brasil" Thu, 07 Jun 2007 19:19:53 +0100 http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/8325/54/#pc_9489 Maybe I'll take a trip down to AZ this fall while friends of our's are there visiting relatives. Couple ol' timer's around here who might wangle me an invite to stop in / tour the labs where they did the fac testing. I still wouldn't mind having a crack at testing / fault response surveying a 600 of the same configuration involved. Que e sua cidade ProF? - Simpleton Thu, 07 Jun 2007 01:41:06 +0100 http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/8325/54/#pc_9487 Pirues remains, upright and (so far) unscathed. Simpleton, my friend, this guy will always remain unscathed,because as far as I remember, he was always on top of the wall. A real politico.Brig.Bueno is indeed a decent guy and that was the reason why he was sent to wear the Long Johns. I dont know if you read in the newspapers that Col.Rufino who is the President of the investigative commission is another decent guy and he also told the truth in the senate. I hope he is not the next one to wear the Long Johns. It would be a pity if he does. I dont really see what qualifications Dr.Pires has to be the Minister of Defence. There again, what qualifications did Rumsfeld had to be of SecDef of U.S.? All I wish is that that the truth comes out finally so that the souls of those 154 people on board the Gol 1907 come to rest in peace. I dont think that I am asking too much. - João da Silva Thu, 07 Jun 2007 01:20:06 +0100 http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/8325/54/#pc_9486 Pirues remains, upright and (so far) unscathed. The decent man I would have like to have seen become his eventual replacement, Brig Bueno, was sent to pajamas over this. Why? Because he was being too hard on, too mean to, too abrasive towards, too demanding of the troops manning the towers, scopes and mic sets (and their superior officers) who are / were so dedicated to supporting him and failed. - Simpleton Thu, 07 Jun 2007 01:05:31 +0100 http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/8325/54/#pc_9484 [quote]Pires is still the Brazilian Defense Minister !!!!! [/quote] Pires is our beloved "El Comandante". As solid as the Rock of Gibraltor. The finest Defense Minister that we have ever had.Thanks to him, our borders are secure from the marauding Venezuens. - João da Silva Wed, 06 Jun 2007 23:23:56 +0100 http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/8325/54/#pc_9479 it could be only Brazilians who believe that a lost pilot in the air....will decide to have a nap !!!!!!! Quite laughable.....from a supposed serious and educated Brazilian House Representative ! Quite the same for your pampers wearing Minister Pires, still saying today that there is no blindspots in Brazil, when ALL pilots, brazilian ATCs, and all the Brazilian airforce pilots, sergeants, captains, majors, colonels, brigadiers and just name it......KNOW AND ACKNOLEDGED THAT YOUR COUNTRY HAS MANY BLINDPSPOTS AREAS !!!!! Ohhhhh....but dont worry......Pires is still the Brazilian Defense Minister !!!!! What a shame.....what a shame ! - ch.c. Wed, 06 Jun 2007 21:28:45 +0100 http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/8325/54/#pc_9475 First they were doing "tricks in the air" Now they were "sleeping". Give me a break. If your going to embelish the truth, at least try to make it believeable. Geez! Why was this article even written? It makes Brazil politics look even more like an insane assylum. - Its simple economics Wed, 06 Jun 2007 19:04:42 +0100 http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/8325/54/#pc_9473 You should read "Controller" where is written 'controler' So sorry, George Rock - George Rock Wed, 06 Jun 2007 15:35:04 +0100 http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/8325/54/#pc_9472 Air Force Sergeant Wellington, Air Traffic Controler testimony about Legacy N600XL and Boeing 737-800 GOL Flight 1907 midair collision. The Legacy N600XL Flight Plan 'PRESENTED' to Air Information Service in Sao Jose dos Campos, in which it was 'PROPOSED' Route as written and point out: DCT PCL UW2 BRS/N0456F360 UZ6 TERES/N0449F380 UZ6 MAN DCT Flight Plan 'PRESENTED', It HAD NO APPROVAL to step down to 36.000 feet after Brasilia VOR and to climb up to 38.000 feet after TERES position along airway UZ 6, said Sergeant Wellington, Air Traffic Controller and Brasilia Air Control Center Controllers supervisor on SEP 29, 2006. In other words, the N600XL Flight Plan was 'AUTHORIZED' only on Flight Level 37.000 feet after Brasilia VOR. Air Force Sergeant Wellington, Air Traffic Controller bore testimony to congressman Senator Demostenes Torres for the Parliamentary Committee of Inquiry. Air Force Sergeant Wellington, Air Traffic Controller in his testimony on May 25th, 2007, Friday at National Congress said: ***Bold and highlight and [] by George Rock Portuguese SR. WELLINGTON ANDRADE RODRIGUES: O que nós temos que saber diferenciar existe o plano de vôo proposto, plano de vôo solicitado e plano de vôo autorizado. Nós temos diferenças nisso. English Mr. Wellington Andrade Rodrigues: What we have to understand distinguishing that there is the 'PROPOSED' Flight Plan, the 'REQUESTED' Flight Plan and, the 'AUTHORIZED' Flight Plan. We have difference in that. SR. RELATOR SENADOR DEMOSTENES TORRES (DEM-GO): Correto. E nesse caso, o proposto foi o autorizado? Mr. Senator Demostenes Torres, Relator (=referee), Democrats Party, Goias State: Correct. In this case, the 'PROPOSED' [Flight Plan ] was it the 'AUTHORIZED' [Flight Plan ] ? SR. WELLINGTON ANDRADE RODRIGUES: Não. Mr. Wellington Andrade Rodrigues: No. SR. RELATOR SENADOR DEMOSTENES TORRES (DEM-GO): Qual a diferença? Esse foi o plano de vôo proposto. O que foi autorizado? O senhor pode nos dizer? Mr. Senator Demostenes Torres, Relator, Democrats Party, Goias State: What's the difference? That it was the 'PROPOSED' Flight Plan . Which was the 'AUTHORIZED' [Flight Plan ]? Do you can tell us, sir? SR. WELLINGTON ANDRADE RODRIGUES: Eu digo assim com base no que eu ouvi, porque como não fui eu que fiz a autorização, eu posso explicar por base do que eu fiquei sabendo. Mr. Wellington Andrade Rodrigues: I say thus based on what I have heard, because as it was't me who made the CLEARANCE, I can explain grounded on what I learned. SR. RELATOR SENADOR DEMOSTENES TORRES (DEM-GO): Então o senhor também não tem certeza se foi realmente, o senhor não teve acesso a essa documentação. Mr. Senator Demostenes Torres, Democrats Party, Goias State: Then sir, you do not make sure also whether it actually had been [AUTORIZED], sir, you had no access to that documentation. SR. WELLINGTON ANDRADE RODRIGUES: Não. Eu tive acesso às gravações... Que não fui eu que fiz a autorização. Mr. Wellington Andrade Rodrigues: No. I had access to tape-recordings...that it was't me who made the CLEARANCE. SR. PRESIDENTE SENADOR TIÃO VIANA (PT-AC): Permita, Relator, você afirmou aqui que não foi o autorizado. Mr. Senator Tiao Viana, President of Parliamentary Commettee of Inquiry, Labors Party, Acre State: Permission, Relator, you [Sergeant Wellington ] affirmed right here that [Flight Plan ] it had not been AUTHORIZED. SR. WELLINGTON ANDRADE RODRIGUES: Isso eu afirmo. Mr. Wellington Andrade Rodrigues: That I affirm. SR. PRESIDENTE SENADOR TIÃO VIANA (PT-AC): Foi proposto, mas não foi autorizado. Therefore, the Legacy N600XL's Flight Plan as PRESENTED wasn't AUTHORIZED to descend to Flight Level 36.000 feet after Brasília neither to climb up to Flight Level 38.000 feet after TERES compulsory Fix along Airway UZ 6 centrleine. George Rock Airline Transport Pilot Flight Instructor ( jets ) - George Rock Wed, 06 Jun 2007 15:30:52 +0100 http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/8325/54/#pc_9468 YES, the best point is, Both Aircraft were on the Airway. ATC PUT BOTH OF THEM AT THAT LOCATION. Let's see the Black box transcript from the Canada LAB. Not some unqualified persons interpretation. - Jay Glenn Wed, 06 Jun 2007 11:48:20 +0100 http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/8325/54/#pc_9467 If these guys were lost, how could they have been on a collision course with the GOL? The problem is that they were exactly where they were supposed to be, centered on the airway, at the altitude assigned to them by Air Traffic Control. The GOL flight was exactly where they were supposed to be, centered on the airway, at the altitude assigned to them by Air Traffic Control. And the navigation systems on the aircraft today are so accurate, they hit each other because they both were exactly on course. Sad thing was I had been flying in São Felix do Xingu in June, and I saw that the brand new SIVAM radar site in that area was turned off. This would have been the radar that caused the black hole in the Air Traffic System. If it had been on, Air Traffic would not have lost secondary radar telling them the altitude of both aircraft. - Piloto Júnior Wed, 06 Jun 2007 11:21:41 +0100 http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/8325/54/#pc_9465 Franco believes he understands Quantum Physics and that Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy are alive and well. He believes that he is himself capable of flying the plane, and has any understanding of the event at all. He is a Red Herring salesman. - AES Wed, 06 Jun 2007 09:48:51 +0100