Comments for Brazil Outraged by Suggestion that New Air Accident Is Matter of Time at http://www.brazzilmag.com , comment 0 to 20 out of 21 comments http://www.brazzilmag.com Sat, 11 Oct 2008 09:38:37 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.2 http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/8727/54/#pc_11527 A little digging revealed that at least some Legacys appear to have two mode-S xponders. Don't know if that applies to N600XL. Probably doesn't matter as the system is unlikely to have had automated reversion and or as "assumed" by the pilot hangers was put in standby or turned off by the crew. Again folks, TCAS (as well as TAWS or EGPWS) were created to HELP avoid the situations aviators have experienced since way back when. All training for these systems that I've observed or assisted in conducting stress that pilots are not to get complacent / too trusting of these backup support elements. They have proven themselves damned sure useful in cases where everything else PRIOR to their timely pop-up and guidance advice has gone awry. And by the way, unlike the ATC controllers, you are not mandated to always do what these computers tell you to do (lest you want to be dead) - there are undetected errors possible in the other guys aircraft system that will f you up but then again, getting a bad resolution advisory guidance is better than getting no advisory at all which is what happend in this case twice - first by the ATC and second by the electronics on board two aircraft. - Simpleton Thu, 11 Oct 2007 00:29:07 +0100 http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/8727/54/#pc_11471 I woke up the morning after the story was published, and didn´t notice BRAZIL OUTRAGED.....People were on their way to work as usual, no outrage. Bad traffic, any outrage was due to motoboys and truckers who drive like Peão Brabos. Paperboy didn´t seem outraged. People on the street not outraged. Beggars not outraged. I read what Jobim said, too. Didn´t sound outraged. Sounded miffed to the extent politically necessary. Just doin´his job. READERS OUTRAGED BY NEWSROOM´S SENSATIONALISM But really, am I outraged? No. - Ric Tue, 09 Oct 2007 12:28:27 +0100 http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/8727/54/#pc_11470 I was just trying to point out the previously ignored obvious. I don´t know about the transponder. I was surprised that a new plane of that caliber only had one transponder. Probably got two navcoms, two HSIs or glass equiv., two ADFs in Brazil, an HF for Brazil, only one xponder. - Ric Tue, 09 Oct 2007 12:19:42 +0100 http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/8727/54/#pc_11448 I can't believe anyone is still arguing that point Ric. Lack of communication between ATC centers in Brazil among other communication problems mainly having to do with the Air Traffic Control communication infrastructure. Oracle, blaming the American pilots is so last year. Although I agree it was a multitude of contributing factors. Did we ever hear the final word on the Transponder? - No Name Mon, 08 Oct 2007 21:56:51 +0100 http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/8727/54/#pc_11446 The accident never would have happened if center just let everyone fly off airway pilot´s discretion instead of the incredibly stupid but cheap idea of having aircraft fly EXACTLY THE SAME COURSE COMING AND GOING. If they are willing to lay aside common sense so they can maintain control, let them stand up and take the consequences like a man. - Ric Mon, 08 Oct 2007 18:07:13 +0100 http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/8727/54/#pc_11430 It is well known, that an aviation accident is not the result of an isolated failure. It is always the result of a succession of inter-related factors, what we call, determining factors and contributing factors. In the collision between the two aircraft under consideration, indubitably, the determining factor is identified as the turning off of the transponder/TCAS system by the Legacy’s crew. It should be perceived that, even if all the mechanisms of the Brazilian Air Space Control System had failed, or even, if neither radars of any other form of communication existed, the accident would not have happened if the transponder/TCAS system had been on. As contributing factors, we point to all sorts of procedural failures on the part of the Legacy pilots and of some air traffic controllers. For the pilots, the following procedural failures can be listed, besides that indicated as determining: • the lack of proficiency in the handling of the Embraer Legacy aircraft, especially in the operation of its avionics, characterizing incompetence; • not using the communications failure code on the transponder; • not using the emergency frequency in due time when the communications failure was characterized; • conducting the aircraft in an imprudent manner and being negligent of security rules; and • the low situational awareness of the Legacy’s crew. in at least two moments related to this fact, the Legacy crew failed to act with special caution, considering that the pilots had little knowledge, not only of the Legacy’s operation,but of Brazilian air space: • when they did not question the authorization received, with level FL370 (37,000 feet) for the entire route, differently than in the original flight plan, which foresaw different levels than previously authorized; • when they perceived, by the onboard documentation (and, if they did not perceive, they had the professional duty to have done so) that level FL370 (37,000 feet) on airway UZ6 provided for traffic in the direction opposite that in which the aircraft was proceeding. - Oracle Sun, 07 Oct 2007 23:37:04 +0100 http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/8727/54/#pc_11428 The word is that U.G. ws buried elsewhere. Could be, along with Dona.M. Nobody remembers U.G. anymore and what a shame. - João da Silva Sun, 07 Oct 2007 19:11:21 +0100 http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/8727/54/#pc_11427 The word is that U.G. ws buried elsewhere. - Ric Sun, 07 Oct 2007 19:04:14 +0100 http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/8727/54/#pc_11426 Jesus Christ, what is the problem with that Swiss guy? Looks like sexual frustration to me. He badly needs some penetrating relief from some strong working class Brazilian negão -- the kind of guy he seems to be looking for so feverishly . Any candidates? He will probably pay big bucks for that service! $$$$$$$$$$$ - b r3 Sun, 07 Oct 2007 11:39:44 +0100 http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/8727/54/#pc_11422 It is not absurd...in Brazil, where they firmly believe that everything is politic. That is the Brazilian (UN)common sense transmited from generation to generation. The same (UN)common sense is for the Amazon. Brazilians say it is their country and the world has nothjing to say about. 100 % right in my view. But then why do Brazilians are begging for money from developed nations to preserve the Amazon ? If it is YOUR Amazon, YOU pay for its deforestation OR preservation ! Simple...isnt it ? And if you really have 100 million hectares of degraded land available for more agriculture, AS BRAZILIANS PRETEND, why are you so idiots to spend 1 more addtional dollar ....in deforestation ? Are you so bad in economic maths ? Or are you cheating and lying...as usual ? - ch.c. Sun, 07 Oct 2007 05:17:33 +0100 http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/8727/54/#pc_11421 [quote]"Baumgartner is a Swiss" [/quote] Who is this Junkie BUM GARTNER? Is he from Geneva? Do you know him personally? He sounds to me like another card carrying member of the "Party". You better keep a close track on this fellow ;D - João da Silva Sun, 07 Oct 2007 05:01:38 +0100 http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/8727/54/#pc_11420 You see that I am not alone....in straight and open talks !!! Funny how Brazilians are always outraged...when someone tells them.... the truth !!!!! I am accustomed to this .....in this forum ! :D ;D Sadly, by denying AND hiding the truth, you will never ever.....EVOLVE !!!!!! I am convinced that is your future. - ch.c. Sun, 07 Oct 2007 04:51:38 +0100 http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/8727/54/#pc_11419 You are 1'000'000 % right ! Therefore this is exactly what Brazil will never ever do. And even if they changed their constitution and laws, they will not apply them, to themselves. But quite normal that a young girl, aged 19, receive a 4 years jail term because she stole.....A TUBE OF BUTTER ! That is part of the human tragedy I mentionned above !!!! Worse than Brazil, doesnt exist on this planet. - ch.c. Sun, 07 Oct 2007 04:42:28 +0100 http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/8727/54/#pc_11418 Bloods and corruptions were not in Switzerland but elsewhere. We did kill anyone and we did noit robbed anyone.. And if countries like Brazil are full of corruptions, it is not because of Swizerland, from what I know. And if countries like Brazil do nothing against illegal money laundering out of their country, why should we care....instead of you caring ? Simple example : From 1998 to 2002, around 150 billion Brazilian Reals were money laundered OUT of Brazil. Most of the money went to Miami and New York Banks. When this was revealed, a report was made and given to your senators asking for an investigation. On december 2004, Brazilians senators voted NOT to open an investigation. Guess why ! Ohhhhh in the report 90 Brazilians politicians involved in the money laundering were mentionned. Feel free to scroll the news on this site to see if I am wrong or not ! What has Switzerland to do in that case ? iNTERESTINGLY your ex finance minister Palocci, found out in 2 days that a brazilian worker had a 30'000 Reals in a Brazilian bank account, but your Central Bank, politicians, government and famous (IN)justice dept were unable and unwilling to see and stop the smuggling of 150 billion Reals. Once again Brazilians like you, just as usual, point their fingers elsewhere instead of at themselves. Just the same as for the plane crash when you want to indict the innocent foreign pilots but not those Brazilians at the source of the tragedy. As to bloods, you forget that due to the voluntary mess in your society created by your politicians and governments, Brazil is one of the most violent country.....on this planet. Did you know that 50 % of youths deaths in Brazil, aged 15-24, is due to violent deaths ? Is this how Brazil controls its population growth ? Yessssss Brazilians are more idiots than the average idiots. But you truly EXCEL in cheating, lying and hiding ! Yesss....Brazil is a human tragedy. You want to demultiply your sugarcane production to produce ethanol and create more jobs. What jobs ? Sugarcane cutters !!!!!! BE PROUD !!!!! - ch.c. Sun, 07 Oct 2007 04:26:20 +0100 http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/8727/54/#pc_11417 And, you have a long memory,like the Chinese :D - João da Silva Sun, 07 Oct 2007 01:01:08 +0100 http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/8727/54/#pc_11416 [quote]Why was the body of the main dude behind the 1988 constitution never found? [/quote] You are amazing to ask this question. I asked the same a few hours ago. We know the name of the main dude and lets hear how many have heard of him? - João da Silva Sun, 07 Oct 2007 01:00:07 +0100 http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/8727/54/#pc_11415 Why was the body of the main dude behind the 1988 constitution never found? - Ric Sun, 07 Oct 2007 00:00:30 +0100 http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/8727/54/#pc_11414 I'd be inclined to believe that Mr.Baumgartner sees problems with the Brasilian Air Traffic Control functions. That is because Mr.Baumgartner is Swiss >:( - João da Silva Sat, 06 Oct 2007 23:42:13 +0100 http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/8727/54/#pc_11413 I have lived in Rio for 4 years married into a good Brasilian family. The Brasilian constitution needs to be overhauled. One of the most flagrant flaws is the immunity enjoyed by elected officials from serious punishment for stealing from public coffers...to the extent of not having to return the stolen money or forfeit future positions or pensions. There is absolutely no real punishment if a crooked politician gets caught. They all posture acting highly insulted when someone demonstrates they are crooks or they are incompetent or mendacious or all of the above . Its absurd. Why would the head of an international air traffic controller trade association play politics? Its absurd. I'd be inclined to believe that Mr.Baumgartner sees problems with the Brasilian Air Traffic Control functions. - ADD Sat, 06 Oct 2007 23:34:49 +0100 http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/8727/54/#pc_11411 Ch.c "but Brazilians are more idiots...than idiots !" Do I need to take the spoon off your ass? Or you forgot to take your meds today? You generalize, should I say all Swiss citizens have blood in their hands? Dirty money from the sale of drugs, kidnapping, corruption, flows in your banking system with no questions asked, dear, should I generalize it too? - Shelly Sat, 06 Oct 2007 21:03:41 +0100