Comments for Tit for Tat: Brazil Fights Back and Sends 8 Spaniards Back Home at http://www.brazzilmag.com , comment 0 to 20 out of 48 comments http://www.brazzilmag.com Sun, 07 Sep 2008 16:30:35 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.2 http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/9167/1/#pc_13586 IS FOR THE COMON PEOPLE TO BE INCHARGE OF THERE OWN GOVERMENT hold open elections on there pay and retirement , vote on pro pay for the ones that do there jobe the right way . get rid of the so called surprime court judges and get younger ones that know how the pople live not just there rich friends put them on the same retirmet and social security we have take away there limos , congresonal lunch room &bank make them pay taxes on gufits and there so called lectures . dont allaow sepical instrest people to have closed axess to them only let them be in office 8 years . and if they run for priesident they have to give up there sente or congresonal seat. they should have to fly coach in standard air lines . the total election from the first to finish will be only 6 months - forrest allen brown Thu, 13 Mar 2008 16:33:36 +0100 http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/9167/1/#pc_13585 Brazilian you're right... We will probably learn .....the day we stop stereotyping and passing final judgement. Especially when we judge without using our God given gift to rationalize. But its human nature to judge....when you live in a world where those who are supposed to protect you .....are robbing you blind ...you eventually become judgemental....its a quick and easy way to protect yourself from trouble. Note with due respect: Statistics was my aim to show that before people pass judgement on .....against Brazilians at Spanish Airports .....and against White South Africans for being completely evil .....they should explore/research a situation before they make up their mind....it seems logical and to me ....oh well ....it seems a dignified way of showing respect to the person/s in question. João: Thank you for your compliments... But be very carefull when investing in South Africa.there are restrictions about money gained leaving the country. You should look carefully into that. Forrest allen brown: The very same thing is happening in Portugal....exactly the same! The difference is that its kept secret...and since the Dictatorship of Salazar (in Portugal) there is political interference in the News. Actually if you take away the "piadas" against the Portuguese...the culture of politics ( "....desvios e o ... ninguem sabe de nada...") you will see that its exactly the same as in Brazil. In the end of the day people just get tired of all the rubbish ....and start ignoring the fact that those thieves are actually supposed to be working/protecting the people...not pursuing their personal agendas! - Ivo Thu, 13 Mar 2008 15:43:39 +0100 http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/9167/1/#pc_13584 It is the first time I read this site. I ve found very interesting the opinions here. Many people here showed a lot of knowledge publishing numbers and statistics, also they personal view of the problem and their understanding of history. I liked to know their truth. My message is people is just people whatever their nationality. When will we learn this? - Brazilian Thu, 13 Mar 2008 14:00:38 +0100 http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/9167/1/#pc_13580 IVO look to russia see how it is coming along after 50 years of dicatorship look to the middle east see how they have to buy everthing as there old kingdom and religon has held them back look at the belgum gongo after they were free from belgum with proper leadership it can be fast but most that come in power after such a deal se the money and start to rob the goverment some times worse than the dicatitor did . hencs you get brazil - forrest allen brown Thu, 13 Mar 2008 10:50:24 +0100 http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/9167/1/#pc_13571 Forgive me if I bored you...but its important to know the Afrikaaners were wrong to emphasize and label seggregation originally introduced by the British...but they never exterminated the Africans in any way like the British/Australians did with the Aborigines ...etc.... No, Ivo, you did not bore me at all. In fact it was fascinating to read your comments and thanks for taking your precious time off to clarify my questions. As I said before you are the first person who is South African born in this site. I have been to a couple of African countries, including S.Africa (though for short durations) and I found your country to be much better developed than the rest.From what I read, Zimbawe was good too until Mugabe destroyed its economy. The people talk so much about BRIC countries and I find it interesting that nobody mentions about the potentials of S.Africa. I still remember that when the Apartheid was about to end, many pundits were predicting a civil war.It did not happen. I intend researching more about S.African economy. As for our "Dictatorship", I would rather call it "Military Government" and was quite different from Chile and Argentina. Even Ch.c grudgingly acknowledges that during that period, our economic growth was far above what it is today and probably you have heard about the "Brazilian miracle". Now the young Brazilians are fleeing Brazil, because of lack of opportunities. During the time of the "Miracle", Brazil did receive qualified people from other countries including Portugal and some of them still live here contributing to Brazil. If you meet a Brazilian kid in his 20´s in London and complains about the "Ditadura", please ask him the names of the Brazilian Presidents between 1964 and 1990. You will discover that he is a "Chorão"! Regardless, it is time for the Brazilians to get over the "trauma" of the "Dictatorship" which is nothing but a tool for the politicians to catch votes!! Thanks once again for your info on S.Africa and look forward to be in touch. - João da Silva Wed, 12 Mar 2008 18:18:16 +0100 http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/9167/1/#pc_13569 CONTINUED A report after the war concluded that 27,927 Boers (of whom 24,074 [50% of the Boer child population] were children under 16) had died of starvation, disease and exposure in the concentration camps. In all, about one in four (25%) of the Boer inmates, mostly children, died!!! And in the black camps.... It is thought that about 12% of black African inmates died (about 14,154) but the precise number of deaths of black Africans in concentration camps is unknown as little attempt was made to keep any records of the 107,000 black Africans who were interned. The decision to use the Concentration camps ( by falsely calling them refugee camps ) and the Scorched Earth policy by burning the Afrikaaner farms was to was to try and isolate the Afrikaaner Guerrilas called the "Commandos". Who were destroying the Britsh Strongholds in nightime attacks. And it eventually worked! So as you can see after the War the Afrikaaners LOST EVERYTHING even their loved ones because the British wanted their Gold! That is the truth and if you don't believe me just research it! The negative things of the war was that the Traumatized Afrikaaner minds became radical and enforced seggregation "originally introduced by the British" in 1948 and naming it Apartheid when South Africa became independant in the 1960's. Other interesting things is that Americans were involved in this War against the British Empire they were in a group called the " Irish Transvaal Brigade". Most of the Brigade were "Irish and Irish-American" miners living in the Afrikaaner Republic! The other interesting thing is that the word "COMMANDO" used knowadays refers to the original Afrikaaner Commandos that almost destroyed the Britsh empire! The word was adopted by no other that "Sir Winston Churchill" during the Second World War to form a "Special Guerilla type group to sabotage the Nazis". And Why?....because "Sir Churchill was actually involved in the 2nd Boer War and was captured and imprisoned by the "Boer Commandos". He feared and yet admired their tactics that after escaping as a POW from the Afrikaaners he never forgot how effective they really were! Forgive me if I bored you...but its important to know the Afrikaaners were wrong to emphasize and label seggregation originally introduced by the British...but they never exterminated the Africans in any way like the British/Australians did with the Aborigines ...etc.... Read... research.... and make up your mind....BUT ITS THE TRUTH!!!! - Ivo Wed, 12 Mar 2008 14:05:00 +0100 http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/9167/1/#pc_13568 João...you're spot on ...its "Chorões" when used with humor knowadays but when it was first used it was to relate to the suffering of the Afrikaaners. The name was used by the portuguese for the afrikaaners because in the 1900's after the 2nd Anglo-Boer War they struggled to survive. The Anglo-Boer War was a disaster for the Afrikaaners not only did they loose their official identity with the British expansion but they also lost their moral and many of their possesions and land. The impetus of Apartheid was emotionally driven by the humiliation and the Radical (aggressive) hunger to overcome their suffering at the hands of the British after the Anglo-Boer War. The Afrikaaners were so desperate to develop an identity that they formed the "BroederBond" with the goal of ensuring economic and political prosperity. It was never meant to target the Black poeple on its original proposal but to overcome the British dominion over the Afrikaaners/Boers ! Unfortunately as we all know ...in time the weaker unorganized groups got nailed! You're probably wondering why the Afrikaaners hated the British....well let me summarize their reasons. The Afrikaaners had formed a Republic in the North of South Africa which was known as the "South African Republic (Transvaal Republic)". In the begining no one gave a rat's ass about the Republic but the minute Gold was discovered in 1886 within the Afrikaaner Republic the British Empire did everything to get control of it! Lets just say that to some extent it was a scenario to go to War so Shocking and Unjust that the current Iraq crisis is a "minor blip" in comparison.....and why? Because there was no "Evil dictator " like Saddam Hussein in the Afrikaaner Republic and at no point was there a threat that the Afrikaaners would attack the BritishEmpire! The British just wanted that Gold ...and hell did they get it.... At one point the British were actually starting to loose the War when Mozambique (Portugal) was allowing weapons etc to go through its territory to the Afrikaaner Republic. But Britain made a deal with Portugal that if they stopped helping the Afrikaaners they would help Portugal against Germany .(At the time Germany wanted to invade parts of the portuguese colonies of Mozambique and Angola) so Portugal agreed to shut the door! And soon the British started to dominate....(but even then some portuguese secretly still helped the Afrikaaners but on a very small scale) ....but they were still struggling to beat the Afrikaaners/Boers . So they introduced to the World the "Concentration Camp" and the "Scorched Earth Policy" which many people think was the idea of Hitler! But in reality it was the British Empire's desperate attempt to destroy the Afrikaaners/Boers. They took all the women and children from the Afrikaaners' farms and they locked them up in "filthy-unhygienic" Concentration camps. About 93,940 Boers ( Boer =Afrikaans word for farmer) and 24,457 black Africans were locked up in these camps ....and many Died !!! - Ivo Wed, 12 Mar 2008 14:03:47 +0100 http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/9167/1/#pc_13567 tried to embed....didn't work. Here is the link. http://video.globo.com/Videos/Player/Noticias/0,,GIM801516-7823-ASSIM NO BRASIL COMO NA ESPANHA,00.html - bo Wed, 12 Mar 2008 08:52:58 +0100 http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/9167/1/#pc_13566 Don't you think that appears very unprofessional for him to be saying...."in my country"? Shouldn't he be saying, "In Brazil you are required to have A,B,C,D, etc? Appears as if it's a personal issue, rather than an administrative one. LOL! :D - bo Wed, 12 Mar 2008 08:52:18 +0100 http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/9167/1/#pc_13561 Montreal, Canada boring??.... I guess you don't travel much and you have an adversion to pretty French-Canadian girls!!!! - jon Tue, 11 Mar 2008 23:37:53 +0100 http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/9167/1/#pc_13559 "Padeçes" wimps? (Chorões). As you know, Portugués from Portugal is quite different from ours. Clue us all in. It was an interesting response from you and permit me to reflect and respond tomorrow! - João da Silva Tue, 11 Mar 2008 23:30:47 +0100 http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/9167/1/#pc_13558 Os portugueses especialmente .....os Madeirenses tinham o costume de chamar os Afrikaaners de "Padeçes" ....does anyone here know why? - Ivo Tue, 11 Mar 2008 22:44:28 +0100 http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/9167/1/#pc_13557 João With regards to Dictatorship ...its impossible to think that the residual effects will disappear with the next generation. There is always a transitional period where economic stagnation will occur. Most often you will be in situations where foreign investment will be slow to enter the changing economy due to World perception. So generalized growth will be impaired to a degree. The other is the slow process of moving from centralized micro-economics to a broader economic structure due to the need to borrow money with unpredictable interest rates. Dictatorships are plagued with favouritism and most often they will focus on what a country has in place with regards to skilled labourers. Its the easy route and results will be positive in the short term. But by implementing a focalized economic growth reforms the market develops a distorted industrial system benefiting only a few in big centers!! With time it changes but then other key problem is that every dictatorship driven economy will bring its "elite" that will consistently resist meaningful change! This resistance eventually collapses but not without a time delay in development and growth which will slow the next generation's rise. There are other factors involved such as trade deficits... the inevitable debt to fund internal development (with the added interest rates) and inflation. João With regards to South Africa the former goverments Social policy was flawed from the begining. The Apartheid policy as you will know was to create a (pseudo-)environment where different races could develop in a Segregated society . Sometimes I can't believe that the "Social Engineers" from the university of Stellenbosch ignored the obvious fact that their system was going to promote racial tension/hatred. Let me give you the straight facts ....in Apartheid the white was the master. He had the clean school...highly qualified teachers and a scholastic curriculum of the highest standard. He went to School in his school's uniform and the education was holistic in terms of academics; sport etc... May God forgive me for being so straight forward ...but the underlying dogma was that the whites (especially the Afrikaaners) were inferior to no one. And a lot of people lived by this ! Especially the Afrikaaners who suffered economically in the early 1900's .At one point there was even a degree of discrimination against the portuguese immigrants and refugees from the colonial wars in Angola and Mozambique. I have to admit that when I was in University in Pretoria where the medium used was Afrikaans I experienced a degree of discrimination for being portuguese. My father wanted me to get the best education possible and the majority of the goverment's funding in those days was in Pretoria. So it was the obvious choice. The goverment did provide schools and some universities (eg university of medunsa for medicine etc) to the black majority but it was always inferior to the white's educational facilities. I thank God with all my heart that I spent almost 6 years of my childhood in the Island of Madeira where a few of my friends were of mixed race. I'm still convinced that my time in Madeira saved me and my brothers from becoming racists ! I could go on about Apartheid and the "Broederbond's social plan" but I'd spend my whole life in front of this computer. João; I hope this answers your questions. - Ivo Tue, 11 Mar 2008 22:35:58 +0100 http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/9167/1/#pc_13554 yes i nbeleive this even the church has had its whore and still does what make it a crime is it could be prevented buy the state through propre school , better pay , making men take more responsibilty to there kids that they father and leave as now women sell there bodies to feed there kids they cant find a job that pays as much . have to give up there bodies to there boss to keep there jobs not smart enough to gain employment to lazy to work to buy drugs like the life style in some cases mothers sell there kids into the field yes make it legal but watch over it in houndras all women and men have to go to the clnic ever month to get a test if they fail they are out of work till is crued if they have aids than no more sex for sale - forrest allen brown Tue, 11 Mar 2008 21:56:51 +0100 http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/9167/1/#pc_13544 Duh?.....If prostitution is legal ( except for minors).. REGULATE IT! All prostitutes should be registered. Have a license of some sort. Non compliance will subject one to a fine or jail. Standardize the rates. SE VALORIZAR.!!!!! I say this all the time my cousins and friends ;) What a double standard! Legal , unregulated prostitution . Then cry about it as a problem. - dnbaiacu Tue, 11 Mar 2008 17:36:16 +0100 http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/9167/1/#pc_13543 I fail to understand all the hype about prostiitution.. It goes on and has gone on since the beginning of time in most nations that are not still tribal in nature. From a purely statistical standpoint is Brazil appears to be disproportionately affected by this problem ,.But that only says that overall its female and male population that chooses to engage in this form of "commerce" are A LOT more intelligent with their sexuality overall than those unmarried sexually active populations of other nations.that chose to get nothing out of substance or "tangible" out of a sexual encounter , which is utltimately an expense of energy. Developed countries that have the problem , only masked and hidden a lot better ,aren't any more less "disgusting". Maybe the Brazilian "probem" just shows a conscious decision on the part of the prostitute that , "Hey, if I am going to have sex I might as well get paid for it". Are the sexually active men , women and children, of more developed countries any smarter, or more moral ,for not demanding something more than a promise or an orgasm,,if that?!!!? Who is being the smarter CAPITALIST if they aren't married? One can still get pregnant, catch STD's , and suffer emotionally not charging a penny. But again, who really is having sex without "some sort of transaction" emotional or otherwise. So if you are giving up your energy anyway, why not chare a euro or a dollar? Further, does anyone think that these women or girls first sexual experience was with a john? .. I think not! All out prostitution is a conscious choice ,in most instances ,after already consenting to,or having sex forced on them. So prostitution really begins at home and in the community. Brasil is very open and accepting of adultery in all social classes.. This is the real issue. Address the culture before attacking the resulting problems. More developed countries just have more money to hide the effects of an immoral adulterous society.. That is the ONLY difference say between Brasil and any Western European country and the U.S.Better access to abortion and more effective forms of contraceptives. Prostituiton is ultimately a CHOICE. No human has to participate in it to survive. No matter how poor they are. A beautiful virgin is going to command a higher price any day. And "SOMEONE" will find her worth enough to MARRY. The key is to KEEP that chasity .. Be proud of it . And advertise it.!!!Have the government try promoting these values for a change. Brasil is blessed with a high proportion of beautiful people."Exotic," by European and North American standards .This is a fact. If these people give themselves away for a dollar or a euro, no one can really control that overall Yet fiscal policy can control that to greater degree. . Make Brasil "LESS AFFORDABLE" ! Johns come to Brazil simply because there is more beauty or youth for the price. Brasil is a BARGAIN. You are going to pay for sex either way it goes. Married men pay their wives all the time. It is just "convenient sex". Especially proven if he ends up being a cheater. It's time to feel more sorry for unmarried people that "don't" have sex for money. The powers that be in Brasil know that prostition of all kinds is part of the economy. And they have beautiful people to keep drawing an international crowd. THIS is why they turn their faces away. This has and has always been about the MONEY. Again ,, change fiscal policy in Brasil , if possible. And the prostitution problem will take care of itself. Tourists will stay at home and deflower their own little girls and boys. Who in turn will sell themselves because it just makes better sense than to "give it away" on some cheap promise. - dnbaiacu Tue, 11 Mar 2008 17:17:07 +0100 http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/9167/1/#pc_13542 I have been following your comments and I do appreciate your defending Brazil and the Brazilians. Indeed we need positive thinking bloggers such as your good self. However I would like to ask you two questions. 1) You mentioned that:Unfortunately Brazil's poeple are still recuperating from the years of Dictatorship they suffered under. What makes you think so, bearing in mind that most of the kids that are fleeing Brasil were not even BORN during the "Dictatorship"? Please do remember that the "Dictatorship" lasted 21 years and ended on April 21, 1985. For 23 years since then, our kids have been having plenty of opportunities to exercise their rights as well as express their opinions freely to turn Brazil into a true democracy, contributing to building of a great nation. Why are not they doing and instead fleeing the country? 2) In another thread titled "What Brazil Can Learn from the US on Race and Education", I commented: [quote]Before I comment further, I would like to invite some South African bloggers (if any) to tell us how the quality and accessibility of education during and after the "Apartheid". [/quote] Since you are a South African by birth, I would like your opinion on this. Thanks and look forward to your comments. - João da Silva Tue, 11 Mar 2008 17:01:39 +0100 http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/9167/1/#pc_13535 [quote]for the men and boys that use thies women than call them names that is the shame of brasil for congress to see this and do nothing about it that is a crime ajusnt brasil and showing there lack of humanity for there own[/quote] Sorry for the mistake above, but the point Ivo made was clear and yours too. Unify both answers and you will see that the prostitution of minors in Brazil (or older women) is a downright disgusting act. Filthy and immoral are those who turn their face the other way and those Europeans North Americans who come over to Brazil to abuse children. In this case my friend, two wrongs don't make a right. - Shelly1 Tue, 11 Mar 2008 11:39:21 +0100 http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/9167/1/#pc_13534 For the men and boys that use thies women than call them names that is the shame of brasil for congress to see this and do nothing about it that is a crime ajusnt brasil and showing there lack of humanity for there own - Shelly1 Tue, 11 Mar 2008 11:34:41 +0100 http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/9167/1/#pc_13531 it is confused with wanting to be treated like most people after moving around like i have most of my life and seeing the different way and price i get charged for the same thing as the belongers is to be aggresion . for the police to stop and charge money for me to drive down the road ? for the IBAMA to show up at my farm wanting to inspect my chicken coup too see if is dumping waste in the river ( i have 17 chickens with a concrete floor ) and trying to fine me and the river is 3.5 kl away from my house . the eletric company charging money too me for the sain terras gato electiry while they camped out in front of my land , stoled my water , blocked my driveway . dumped trash all over the place , called my wife and her family whores , and other things , while walking behind them in the markets in town . and get no help from the police when they ask for help well i guess i have the typical american aggression any woman that has to sell her self for food money to feed her kids because the state has failed her is no whore for the ypung girl that sells herself to help build a float in the prade at carnavil because of pride in her favela , dont know what to think about that one for the men and boys that use thies women than call them names that is the shame of brasil for congress to see this and do nothing about it that is a crime ajusnt brasil and showing there lack of humanity for there own - forrest allen brown Tue, 11 Mar 2008 09:17:53 +0100