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Brazil to Create 2000 Direct Jobs Building Submarines PDF Print E-mail
Written by Alex Rodrigues   
Saturday, 27 December 2008

French submarine Scorpène The Navy of Brazil is celebrating the signing of a cooperation agreement between Brazil and France. The Brazilian military believes that transfer of French technology, for the construction of five submarines in Brazil, should benefit the Brazilian industry and generate new jobs, as well as contributing for the country to make true its program of development of marine forces.

Through a press statement, the Brazilian navy said that the agreement forecasts the transfer of technology necessary not just for the military designers, but also for the several companies that are going to participate in the construction of conventional submarines and of the first Brazilian nuclear submarine.

According to the Brazilian Navy, many national products should be used in the submarines. "Up to now, there are already over 30 national companies involved, which should contribute with over 36,000 items, including complex systems," according to the press statement.

Apart from that, a shipyard will be built in Itaguaí, in the metropolitan region of Rio de Janeiro, to build the nuclear submarine. The site should also serve for the production of conventional submarines and should include a naval base for support of these vessels. According to the government of Rio de Janeiro, the works should be developed by Odebrecht and by Sepetiba Consortium.

Still according to the Brazilian Navy, the entire production process of the submarines and of the shipyards should generate over 2,000 direct jobs and around 6,000 indirect ones.

The agreement for cooperation defines that the French help should be limited, in the long run, to the design and to the non-nuclear part of the first Brazilian nuclear submarine. According to the document, the vessel should use conventional weapons and both the nuclear reactor and the electronic systems associated to it should be developed by Brazil.

Although exempting itself from any responsibility with regard to damaged caused to third parties by the submarine or by its land support installations, the agreement forecasts the establishment of companies or consortia of private rights established by public, private or mixed-capital companies, Brazilian or French, to develop and build a submarine capable of receiving a nuclear reactor, produced according to international safety procedures.

The government of France agreed to authorize the sale, by French companies, of equipment, material and services to the Brazilian Navy or to Brazilian companies. Apart from that, the two countries should also consider the possibility of, totally or partially, exempting goods and services imported or produced for these purposes from direct or indirect taxes.

ABr

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...
written by João da Silva, December 27, 2008
It seems to be just the start of a long lasting cooperation between France and Brasil . The signing of the new agreement will not only create direct and indirect jobs in Sub building, but also in other sectors of economy such as Tourism. Mr.Sarkozy appears to like Brasilian weather and hospitality so much that he decided to take an extended vacation in BA after the signing as per the local news reproduced below:

Ao lado da primeira-dama francesa, Carla Bruni, Sarkozy passou o Natal no Brasil, em um resort de luxo na Bahia.

A previsão é que o casal permaneça no local até o dia 29 de dezembro. Até lá, devem visitar o centro de Ilhéus, além de reservas naturais nas proximidades da cidade.


We sincerely hope that many other European dignitaries follow his example and take prolonged vacations in BA thus generating more tourism revenue for that state.
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ON VACATION
written by forrest allen brown, December 27, 2008
WITH A BOTTLE OF VIGRIA and a film crew

at least he did not walk around the buss station in brasilia for his entertainment

,( private or mixed-capital companies.)
so some rich brasilian will get a law passed to where all sharded intel and its equipment will have to be
bought from a brasilian company .

and with total tax exempt status well yet again the sub will be 150% over buget
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Hey Hey but...but...but.....
written by ch.c., December 27, 2008
Joao this is not the first French technology transfer deal.
You already have many.
One is for some exisiting helicopters construction. And another one signed for newer generations helicopters !

Now let me laugh, because what cam on the surface for the submarines deal was of course not announced earlier in the many
previous articles and disclosures :

- "The agreement for cooperation defines that the French help should be limited, in the long run, to the design and to the non-nuclear part of the first Brazilian nuclear submarine. According to the document, the vessel should use conventional weapons and both the nuclear reactor and the electronic systems associated to it should be developed by Brazil."

In my view....your next submarine...will not be build...for many years to come, even at 150 % above the budget as
Forrest said

- " Although exempting itself from any responsibility with regard to damaged caused to third parties by the submarine or by its land support installations,"

In my view...with a big smile....that is an undertsandable "detail" from the French side

And as to BA tourism, sorry Joao, this is not real tourism.
Sarko was in Brazil anyway, and due to year end, he just took the opportunity to EXTEND his diplomatic trip for a few days to have a little rest, but not for many days most probably !!!!
This is not GOING on vacations, if you see what I mean !
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Joao.....
written by ch.c., December 27, 2008
Hopefully you understand what means
"The agreement for cooperation defines that the French help should be limited, in the long run, to the design and to the NON-nuclear part of the first Brazilian nuclear submarine"

while so far.....ALL previous disclosures were for INCLUDING.... THE NUCLEAR PART !

Not the same...and what a difference !

And also " both the nuclear reactor and the electronic systems associated to it should be developed by Brazil."

In my view, your first nuclear submarine will not be built within the next 25 years !!!!

YOU ARE NOT EVEN ABLE TO PRODUCE YOUR OWN NUCLEAR POWER PLANTS....TODAY !
And nuclear submarines technology is far more advanced and difficult than...... nuclear power plants.

I always had doubts and questions in the earlier articles as to why France would even SELL their nuclear submarine technology.
NOW I have the answer which is......NOOO there is no nuclear submarine technology transfer !!!!

Hey hey !

Let me raise another question : What are the Real details on the NON nuclear submarines technology transfers ????

Funny not a word in the article despite 5 submarines "should" be built !!!!!!!!

Let me tell you what my nose feels :
- to build 5 NON nuclear submarines... even if built one after the other...NEED FAR MORE THAN 2000 ENGINEERS & WORKERS !

Just remember.....cheaters always cheat, liars always lie and hider always hide !

Time will prove me right....once more...on that particluar one ! GUARANTEED !

smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/grin.gif smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/grin.gif smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/grin.gif smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/grin.gif
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RUSSIA HAS MANY U BOATS FOR SALE
written by forrest allen brown, December 27, 2008
COULD CUT OUT THE MIDDLE MAN
and buy one and reverse enginer one just to see what works and what would work
for brasil.
like a shalow draft unit as brasil ports are not deap enough to handel one .
and from rio north the only place deep enough would be marion , amaziona .

still a big waste of money too me as you could have many surface to surface missels
to do the same job as a big expinsive target like a sub
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RUSSIA HAS MANY U BOATS FOR SALE
written by ch.c., December 27, 2008
Brazil too !
They do have some OLD submarines - NON OPERATIONAL - DUE TO LACK OF MAINTENANCE !
Even India steel industry doesnt want that rotten crap


Just think what would happen with maintenance even if new Non nuclear submarines will be built !
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Ch.C
written by João da Silva, December 27, 2008
Hopefully you understand what means
"The agreement for cooperation defines that the French help should be limited, in the long run, to the design and to the NON-nuclear part of the first Brazilian nuclear submarine"


I understood about this issue a few months ago after reading the statement made by our Minister of Defense. This agreement is to build 4 conventional submarines (Diesel Electric Subs) and just ONE hull for a Nuclear submarine that will be fitted with the reactors, Electro-electronic systems, etc; to be developed by Brasil (With French technology ?- Not very clear). Nobody mentioned about the armaments like torpedoes, surface to surface missiles, etc; Ok, the agreement is on paper and we dont know how things are going to work out. All we know is Odebrecht won the contract to build a Naval Base and I am sure the work will start soon. This itself will generate plenty of jobs in Rio. Then the R & D work to build the Subs will generate more jobs for the fresh Engineering graduates of all branches. Altogether not a bad idea and since the Military is involved, we may end up having a working sub made nationally.

As to the question of whether we really need a sub to protect our oil fields, I think the reason given is for political consumption and not really necessary to give this BS.If this project is going to generate jobs for our fresh graduates, I am fully in favor.

I am also aware that this is not the first time France and Brazil are signing an agreement to collaborate. As for my comment about Sarko coming on tourism, it is just a joke. I am not a big fan of him nor the French "dignitaries". Their track record in Algeria and other parts of the world is not something for them to be proud of.
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Forrest
written by João da Silva, December 27, 2008
still a big waste of money too me as you could have many surface to surface missels
to do the same job as a big expinsive target like a sub


OK Forrest, I have written some comments months ago abut this issue and suggested also as how to organize the coastal defense to protect the newly found "Oil Wealth". If you read my previous comment under this thread about generating jobs especially for the fresh engineering graduates, it makes strong political sense.It does appease the Middle class, does it not?
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THERE IS NO NEED TO PROTECT THE OFF SHORE OIL
written by forrest allen brown, December 27, 2008
to think another country could come in and take oil from a platform is insane at best .
it would take a navel fleet to set on site to keep what they took 24-7 just to get the tankers on site
and haul off the oil to some country and sell it , for no profit as to the price of taking it.

so the idea of building a sub for that is well they are blowing smoke up your ass
as a oil war is a few years off at best , and will be taken from land bases not off shore
pipe lines .
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Their (FRENCH) track record in Algeria and other parts of the world is not something for them to be proud of.
written by ch.c., December 28, 2008
And listen to that on French Tourists :
THEY ARE RANKED THE WORLD....WORST !!!!
True

The best ranked were the Japanese !
Swiss Tourists were 3rd or 4th I dont recall !!!

Whenever French go they are never satisified, always asking for favors (due...of course), everything is too expensive, critical on just about everything, rarely agree with the bills etc etc ! And they are sure to be the World Best People !

smilies/grin.gif smilies/wink.gif

Going back to the submarines, in my view for the Electronics (re-reading the article) looks like to be.....must be developed by
Brazil !

What you wrote on that deal is somewhat Funny....because in many sites describing Brazil Prowesses....you are very good at building....... submarines !

In fact so good...that you havent built ONE in several decades.
And as to your existing submarines fleet : you have 5, but only ONE operational !!!!!!

" A 2007 report pointed out that not only the Navy had just 21 combat surface ships to patrol 7,367 km (4,577 miles) of coastline but also only 10 of those ships were operational. Additionally, most operational ships are plagued with operating restrictions. Of the Navy's 5 submarines, only one is fully operational.Two others operate with restrictions and 27 or 46% of the Navy's 58 helicopters are inoperable."

And on your others armaments :
- "Only 267 or 37% of the Air Force's aircraft are operational, lack of maintenance and spare parts have grounded 452 aircrafts.
Compounding this problem is the fact that 60% of the aircrafts are 20 years old or older"

Last but not least :
- "The Army is also facing challenges, 78% of all Army vehicles are 34 years or older and some trucks date from World War II. General Enzo Martins Peri added the fact that most of the Army's artillery guns are also from World War II. Of the Army's 1,437 armored vehicles over 40% are not combat ready and 40% or 2,670 of the Army's vehicles are not operational. General Augusto Heleno Ribeiro Pereira, then commander of the Amazonian Military Command stated that some weapons have been in use for more than 40 years. Lastly, the amount of ammunition stock is only 15% of what is recommended.

WITH SUCH GREAT ARMAMENTS...... In my view.....Chavez could easily invade Brazil and...WIN !

And it is not 4 newer submarines that wont be ready anyway before a decade at least...that will strenghten your defense !

And what about if Uruguay and Paraguay, in alliance, would invade Brazil ???????

Brazilians are tigers....without nail...just big mouths.....that excel at....cheating, lying and hiding the sad truth, and addicted to caress their navel !

A few cheap ethanol bombs should suffice to destroy the country.

smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/grin.gif smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/grin.gif smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/grin.gif smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/grin.gif smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/grin.gif smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/grin.gif smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/grin.gif
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written by João da Silva, December 28, 2008
And listen to that on French Tourists :
THEY ARE RANKED THE WORLD....WORST !!!!
True


The French tourists in the following link do not seem to be complaining about anything:

http://www.estadao.com.br/noti...9684,0.htm

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Joao
written by ch.c., December 28, 2008
Do you believe These French Tourists are Representative of the French Tourists !

Smiles

Did these French Tourists paid their own bills ? Not sure at all !

Smiles
smilies/wink.gif
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Ch.C
written by João da Silva, December 28, 2008
Did these French Tourists paid their own bills ? Not sure at all !


Probably Odebrecht and the Government of Brazil picked up the tab. These "tourists" are thinking of extending their stay till the New year.

Quite funny, Sarko seems to be issuing statements about the latest conflict between Israel and Hamas from sunny BA, as though both the parties are going to declare a ceasefire to enable Sarko & Co to have a peaceful New Year party. smilies/wink.gif

BTW, do you know how many wives does Sarko have ? smilies/grin.gif
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written by João da Silva, December 28, 2008
Nice French Tourists

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Ch.C
written by João da Silva, December 28, 2008
FYI, I am posting some more pictures to demonstrate that the French "Tourists" are not what you claim:

http://www.estadao.com.br/inte...leria=1337

smilies/wink.gif smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/grin.gif smilies/cool.gif smilies/tongue.gif
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written by jon, December 28, 2008
I hope Sarko did not scare off the locals by wearing his speedos on the beach, mon dieu! smilies/grin.gif
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Jon
written by João da Silva, December 28, 2008
I hope Sarko did not scare off the locals by wearing his speedos on the beach, mon dieu!


That is what he is doing in Bahia,Jon. He doesn't inspire much confidence behaving like an ill bred urchin. smilies/wink.gif
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So True...
written by falupa, December 29, 2008
Knowing the french, the military will be lucky if the ship doesn't sink. I don't think it is jobs that Brazil is worried about, but their military strength. European technology is advanced, but I believe that Brazil will be hard pressed to receive all of the technology. Especially more advanced technology, such as sonar equipment and noise reduction technology, as well as on board weapons computer equipment.
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Ch.C
written by João da Silva, December 29, 2008
Is Sarko still in BA?



Your newspaper "Le Pen" does not seem to be a big fan of his, either. smilies/cheesy.gif
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written by João da Silva, December 29, 2008
Knowing the french, the military will be lucky if the ship doesn't sink.


If at all it is built. I went through the Bio of Sarko and he reminds me so much of Fernando Collor de Mello!
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Jon
written by João da Silva, December 29, 2008
Just check if Sarko is wearing his Speedos,please. The accompanying lady could be sued for indecent exposure in Public Places, don't you think so?



Your feed back on this issue is very important. smilies/cheesy.gif
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Falupa "Knowing the french, the military will be lucky if the ship doesn't sink"
written by ch.c., December 29, 2008
Noooooo sorry !
French develop very good things in armaments, commercial and military planes, helicopters, fregates, submarines but also in infrastructure, such as roads, bridges, metro, trains, waste water treatments plants, nuclear power plants.
But overall they are not good at selling to foreign countries.
Sure they do sell a lot, but it should/could be far more. That is even French officials from left to right who have this self-criticism.

Therefore no problem for the French design on nuclear submarines, but the problem will be at the Brazilian side : developing and building their own nuclear power including all the corresponding electronics for the submarines.


It reminds me of the SP metro crater 2 years ago !
Also with the French design and engineering.
But as the Brazilian Director of the program said in his resignation letter "in view of the budget and materials provided, it was just an accident waiting to happen"

So true...and may be alos true for your construction submarines prowess !

smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/grin.gif smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/grin.gif
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Joao "the French "Tourists" are not what you claim"
written by ch.c., December 29, 2008
I did not know Carla Bruni was a real French !
Great prime news.
This said many French and Italians women are great looking ! I agree !
They have a charm and attraction not found with Brits, Germans, Spanish or Portuguese ! No doubt !

On the same light note, hopefully you know that Carla Bruni is from a very wealthy family. On top of that as a supermodel she also earned a lot of money.
When Sarko was elected President, one of the first thing he did was to increase his own salary by around 60 to 100 % (I dont recall) but also doubled or so the budget of the Elysée Department !

A higher lifestyle is always more expensive !
Since HE also enjoy the VERY EXPENSIVE lifestyle that HE cannot afford...his closest friends are also some billionaires
who are willing to "rent" him for free their yachts, secondary residences, private jets etc etc !!!!!

smilies/wink.gif
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Sarko at the Beach
written by jon, December 29, 2008
Joao,

The boy in the picture is pointing at Sarko's..ummm, er...."shortcomings" and his "political assistant" is clearly not impressed. I am not sure where Carla is
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Ch.C
written by João da Silva, December 29, 2008
On the same light note, hopefully you know that Carla Bruni is from a very wealthy family. On top of that as a supermodel she also earned a lot of money.
When Sarko was elected President, one of the first thing he did was to increase his own salary by around 60 to 100 % (I dont recall) but also doubled or so the budget of the Elysée Department !


I know that . Also that Sarko is nothing different from the LatAm rulers. He also has plenty of pensions (?) like ours. I also know that he was a bad student. This is his third marriage and all his previous wives were pretty wealthy. Probably, he will go for 4th,5th, and Nth marriage to promote the glory of Mother France. Our friend Forrest is right. Probably Sarko is carrying plenty of bottles of Viagra, when he travels.

He is supposed to be towards the "RIGHT" of the "CENTER". For me, he is a bloody racist SOB. For that matter, most of the French are bloody racists and look down upon even the polite and well educated Brasilians. In case you missed my comments last year, just get into an Air France flight and see how they are condescending to Brasilian passengers as well as to the ones from the East.

It will be a long time before I fly through Air France and spend 14 hours in a transit lounge (happened before Le France eased the visa restrictions on the Brasilians). There again I have a long memory. The French really deserve a "Pavão" like Sarko and I am sure he will uplift the image of "Le France" among the members of U.N. Viva "Le France" and the French can elect and re-elect Sarko as many times as they want.
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written by João da Silva, December 29, 2008
Therefore no problem for the French design on nuclear submarines, but the problem will be at the Brazilian side : developing and building their own nuclear power including all the corresponding electronics for the submarines.


Tell this to late lamented Saddam Hussein and Gen.Galterie (I think that this gentleman is still alive)
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Jon
written by João da Silva, December 29, 2008
The boy in the picture is pointing at Sarko's..ummm, er...."shortcomings" and his "political assistant" is clearly not impressed. I am not sure where Carla is


The little boy seems to be bright and correctly pointed out the "Short comings" of Sarko. BTW, from what I read the little boy is Carla´s son .Probably in 10 years from now, he would say "I warned you, Mom". smilies/cheesy.gif
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french
written by forrest allen brown, December 29, 2008
if you know your history the french were the most
war like country in europ before ww1
any one rember the line that ended into the forest and the
austria hungry walked around the end
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Forrest
written by João da Silva, December 29, 2008
if you know your history the french were the most
war like country in europ before ww1


I do remember the history and thats my problem. Lets not forget that every time they got into trouble with the Germans in the 20th century, the Yanks and the Brits had to save their asses. I don't know if you remember the "Vichy French Government" that was really puppets of the Germans. Then they got thrashed in Indo-China and "smoothly" passed the bucks to the unsuspecting Yanks.

Now the French elect a Hungarian as their President who is in his third marriage to an Italian Model who exposes herself on the sunny beaches of Bahia! Are these folks serious about their "Submarines"? . I don't think so. BUT...BUT...., only the time will say.

Now thinking over it retrospectively, I think the U.S. Senate was correct in changing the name of "French Fries" to "Freedom Fries" !
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...
written by jon, December 29, 2008
....and then the French President Degaulle in the late sixties endorses the Quebec separatist movement on Canadian soil..we had to kick the SOB out for interference
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Jon
written by João da Silva, December 30, 2008
and then the French President Degaulle in the late sixties endorses the Quebec separatist movement on Canadian soil..we had to kick the SOB out for interference


Well remembered, Jon. You used the right term while referring to De Gaulle! BTW, Sarko has disappeared from the Brazilian Newspapers. May be a French nuclear sub picked him up off the coast of Bahia.
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