...is exactly the point where you are the weakest !

Brazil is too dependant of external demand because they have no internal demand.
And there wont be any internal demand as long as corporations must borrow money in Reais with 40 to 60 % in annual interets, and there wont be demand from consumer when they must have to borrow at anything between 60 to 150 % yearly interets rates when there is an inflation of only 5 or 6 % !

You are just the slaves of the world demand.
What will happen to you if there is only a simple economic world slowdown, or worse a recession like in 2002 !

you will be on your knees.....just once more....justas you have been regularly during the past 50 years.
That is why Brazil has been called a BOOM AND BUST ECONOMY ! This time it was not even a BOOM, because in the last 3 years, under Lula mandate, Brazil grew at an average of only 2.56 % per year. NOT MORE !
0.5 %, 4.9 %, 2.3% for 2003, 2004 and 2005.
You are even the last on the 24 countries being in the class of developing countries.

YES AT THE QUEUE OF THE QUEUE !!!!!!

AND THIS DESPITE THE ROSY NUMBERS THAT LULA IS TELLING YOU.....BUT INCORRRECTLY ON PURPOSE, TO HIDE HIS TOTAL FAILURES !!!!!

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First let me say that reading your last post was painful. So I will start by giving you some constructive criticism. Think before you just start ...................hum let me guess...hum....hum ....start spouting off incoherent nonsense that makes no sense to those of us who speak English as our native language. I encourage everyone to write in and many non-English speakers contribute without sounding like f-ing idiots. The vast majority may not have mastered the subtleties of the grammar but have better retorts than we all "eat, shit and die the same".

Secondly, I am one of those who calls a beautiful Brazilian girl my wife so I can speak to many of the problems Brazilans know firsthand as I have spent a great deal of time living there. Many of the things the fisrt poster have said are very accurate. Borrowing through normal banking channels in Brazil is entirely out of reach for the majority of Brazilians as a manner of controlling inflation, while to a lesser extent, controlling the entire economy. He is also correct that Lula's big economic miracle has been nothing less than underwhelming. Yes exports are growing to be sure and that is a good thing for the richest 5%, but the lower 70% won't see shit from this and the middle class is hanging by a thread. The big Soy boys and ranchers are making out spectacularly while there are ever more kids on the street celling cell phone chargers. The wealth gap is growing in Brazil much like that of the United States, In addition, Brazil is exporting raw materials and unfinished goods primarily. That is widely known as a bad thing. China has gotten into their knichers and won't relent until they have drained Brazil of many of its precious natural resources then repay the favor by exporting ultra-cheap durable goods that will effectively destroy local industry as it already has begun to do. Lula, loved by so many is nothing more than a fucking criminal!!! He should have been impeached long ago and unfortunately the ignorant lower classes will re-elect that shitball so he can plunder and steal to ensure his retirement on Miami Beach. There is nothing more frightening than the prospect of a lame duck Lula with a purely self-serving agenda. He didn't know about the mensalao - JESUS DO YOU PEOPLE ACTUALLY BELIEVE THAT?

As long as Brazilans, and to a greater extent, Latin Americans live in this dream world where the hammer and sickle reign supreme then they are doomed!! They continue to buy into this populist nonsense from Chavez, Morales, Lula and Kirchner believing that turning back the clock 30 years and (giggle giggle) "giving back to the people" really makes them more competitive or even compassionate is absurd. I for one am scared to see South America returning to dictatorships as a solution to their problems. Give Chavez another, well I was going to say term, but we all know he is here to stay indefinitely. We will see if Morales does likewise, but I suspect he will. Anyway, getting back to Brazil. Corruption is robbing Brazil of its wealth more than any other factor and everyone is powerless to stop it because the government has made a concerted effort to keep people ignorant and illiterate. I won't delve too deeply into the currency issue but Brazil made a catastrophic mistake by failing to adjust their currency. Exports will continue to grow in some sectors but look for massive waves of layoffs in other sectors as it becomes more profitable to import (with a strengthening Real) than buy locally produced goods. Oh and those inexpensively produced goods - where do you reckon they will come from? I wish Brazil the best of luck because when the global economy slows because the American housing bubble bursts or Las Vegas is hit by a dirty bomb and the almighty consumer falls China will not be enough to bail their asses out. The poster is right. You cannot sustain your economy simply by exporting your way out of a 400 billion dollar deficit and ignoring the millions of disenfranchised who will tire of watching the rich benefit while they continue to go hungry.

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I have been following the Brazilian news for the last few weeks. Besides that I am also a native Brazilian. So I would like to comment something about tha last quest' s post.

Hopely that will be no problem as my english level is not that high. However, I do not have his phone number to ask for his permission.

First I have to aknowledge that this QUEST has a remarkble high level in his own language, and also some knowlede in the world of business. But I wonder how somenone can be so smart and at the same time sooo stupiddd!!!

First I WISH to know where he got his information from that Brazilians have to pay, 'anything between 60 to 150 % yearly interets rates'.!!!!

I recommend him to update his sources of information. If he is talking about 13 years ago, ok it could be true. But according to my sources, interest rates are far under the 100%. So if THIS so smart quest wants to be a little more precise the next time, I will appreciate.

And what do you have against Lula????? It is true that he might be lying about several things. But lets get real, if you do not lie in this live you do not get any where as a politician. Not in Brazil nor in Switzerland.

Therefore this quest should observe that Brazil has had several problems, but the country is progressing a lot since the moment that FHC adminstration took the power in the 90s.

According to me, Lula is continuing with the good job, e.g., the auto-sufficiency of brazil in oil that will be reached this year, and as you self said, the skyhigh exports.

The quest is right that the poor people will not profit from this positive occurence. At least not in the begining. But that it is a normal matter in the world that rich people are always the ones to profit from the improvements as first. But this quest should also notice that money will be spent in larger quantities, and this will have positive effects on the economy.

Brazil has always been poor through problems as corruption and the lack of consensus.

But there is no panacea for Brazil in the short-term. So we will have to be satisfied with the progresses we are having now!! Looking at the bright side of the things.

Besides that Brazil is not the only corrupt country around the world!! The most rich countries do also deal with such problems. (of course their problems are minor in compared wiht Brasil's).

So SMART QUEST, be realistic about Brazil and try not to mix lies with prejudices and some truth. See things as they are!!!!

PS Maybe you want to become a politican yourself. In that case continue the good job.

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Let me reply to your comment by defending my position while at the same time informing you that at no time did I ever imply that the interest rate figures were correct. Look back and see if you can find the point where I concurred with the first poster's figures. Can you find it dumb ass??? You are the one who is looking increasingly stupid and that is about 2 paragraphs into your diatribe.

Also if you have proof that can refute his assertion than you should offer it as well. Why should we trust you - because you’re Brazilian? Have you borrowed to buy a car or house yet? Oh that's right, only the most desperate or rich even contemplate borrowing money in Brazil. I am not agreeing with his figures by any means but you are no more credible as you offered nothing to refute it. Do some digging yourself genius and come up with some figures instead of attacking his. That is how intellectual debate works.

In any event I think the term you are looking for is GUEST. A quest is what Lula is on by ramping up social spending (and actually running a deficit even after all those big export proceeds!!) with his populist fervour in order to buy votes in the next election. Yes I think he is a criminal, as I believe my own president is a criminal. I also don't condone criminal behaviour simply because every country has corrupt leaders. With that line of argument we should all start accepting any number of social ills and prejudices because - shucks - they all exist everywhere in the world anyway. That is a pathetic and defeatist attitude that has not served the Brazilian people well in the past. Corrupt president after president, but you should all just accept it because it exists in every culture.

As for the trickle down theory you seem to subscribe to wherein the rich get rich first then it reaches the poor eventually . . .Hate to break it to you friend but that assumption has, for all intents and purposes, been debunked. Look at the United States for a lesson in that. The rich are getting ever richer there and the gap is widening as it is around the world. You are dreaming if you think that export money will actually reach the average Brazilian in a meaningful way. Your junior economics badge is loosing its lustre eh pal? In case you haven't noticed Brazil is already an incredibly wealthy country yet there are millions of people in Rio and Sao Paulo alone who would have to have money poured on them, let alone trickle, for about 10 straight years before they could even contemplate leaving the favela in search of more commodious digs. You are a dreamer friend and that is what I like about Brazilians. They do stay positive despite the desperate plight they are in. In conclusion I have not lied about anything friend. I have simply stated an opinion but by all means refute what I have written. By the way my Brazilian wife, her family and all of her friends agree that Lula is a fucking asshole and horrible for Brazil! I will leave the politics to you since according to you Brazil is already on the road to stardom.

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I hardly know where to begin ripping you a new one. By the way I make no apologies for my command of the English language. I regret that my intelligence, and the collective intelligence of others, makes you feel insecure. It is imperative that you get your inferiority complex under control before engaging in further debate, especially when you make it sooo easy to shred your arguments. Just out of curiosity, which part of my post was ambiguous, unclear or not succinct? Unfortunately you, my friend, are the one who cannot stick to one topic and expand upon it.

It is truly unfortunate that you must be spoken to like a child lest someone set off your insecurity complex and evoke some childish response. In this world no one is going to lower themselves to your level - you must rise to the occasion. Dumbing down my arguments by giving you pre-digested titbits will be of no use to you. It is good that you picked up a dictionary and learned something from reading my post. Bullshit words that nobody understands eh? Which words would those be pray tell? Thank you for your concern over my "capability of communication". Better hit the books Junior because you are the one without any credibility primarily because you cannot do what you accuse me of doing not making a succinct, pointed argument.

By the way if that is your idea of condescension, you better go back to the drawing board because I recognize you for the mental dwarf that you are and I don't recognize you as someone possessing the intelligence or critical thinking skills that would even allow you to patronize me. You must be pretty young and naive so I would lay off the attitude a little. I doubt you have ever been to America but if you have by all means share your experiences with me. Where have you been? Did you ever hold a job there? I'm going to guess no by the way you make such utterly uninformed comments. I especially appreciated the comment about being able to buy a house just by washing dishes.

You must be more ignorant than I initially thought. By all means go to the US and get a job washing dishes at Chile's and then stroll on over to your local bank and proceed to ask them for a $200,000 loan to buy a home and watch the bank manager start rolling on the floor in fits of laughter right before showing you the door. YOU ARE OUT OF YOUR FUCKING MIND!!!! My good man, please show me where you found that interesting fact? You say I can look it up - where can I find the one in a million story of the Mexican or Puerto Rican immigrant who managed to buy a home washing dishes??? Please include that information in your next post!! I really must see this! Washing dishes will make you about $8/hour if you are lucky. The majority of those positions are held by immigrants (in the US, where I am from, primarily Mexicans) who have a limited grasp of English at best, have no credit to speak of and share apartments with 6 to 7 other people and even then they just get by. You do the math SMART BOY and tell me how you can make a $1000 mortgage payment while paying car insurance, paying utilities (gas, electric, etc) and medical insurance (most will never have this by the way) buy groceries and pay for other misc. expenses on $8/hour. Yes many immigrants come to America and buy homes, but they generally come from China, Pakistan, India or Korea and have degrees in electrical engineering. It is obvious you have no knowledge of the situation in America. Take it from me - someone is fucking with your head if you believe that nonsense. Oh and by the way I get that nonsense about the widening wealth gap from a little rag called the Economist (ever heard of it?) not to mention the Wall Street Journal, Financial Times and New York Post, but I'm sure there are some Brazilian journals that can confirm what I am saying too. You do the research SMART GUY!

Poverty banished in Brazil in 4 years - you keep dreaming!!!! 400 billion dollar external debt and millions in favelas - HAHAHAHA!!! America has not eliminated poverty in 300 years and we are the most "powerful" country on earth. What makes you think that Brazil with its massive corruption can manage in 4 years what the first world hasn't in 1000? You are probably one of the most naive, moronic people I have had the pleasure of ripping apart. Thank you from the bottom of my heart!!

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If you are talking about Brazilian politicians who use bullshit words that no one understands you must be referring to Lula himself. He is widely recognized as one of the world's most poorly spoken leaders whose command of Portuguese only just exceeds that of your average 5 year old (which is not surprising given that his level of education is not much greater either). Even I have recognized numerous grammatical errors in his rumbling stumbling speeches. Yes I am talking about the same Lula who brings Cachasa to a Muslim summit. He and my president are equally stupid and inarticulate only neither of them are clever enough to use words that people don't understand based on their complexity but rather on their poor pronunciation and inappropriate usage . . .

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The only thing that I have to admit is that I am learning something from you. And I am not too proud to admit that. So thank you.

Your command of the English language is outstanding, but I see you are not able to calculate!!!

So I want to learn you something too as you are also learning me something. And I will use your information!!!!

8$ per hour times 180 hours per month =$1440. All right?? And sharing the rent with other 5 persons will reduce the expenditures drastically, i.e., $300 for the rent and $50 to eat (it can be assumed that he will eat in the restaurant where he is works) and $150 dollar for other expenditures. So total expenditure = $500.

So this dishes washer will save $960 per month. Per year =12x960 = $11520

So I am sure he will be able to buy a house after 4 years, i.e., 46,080 + loan. I am pretty sure that the bank manager will be very happy to receive him, giving a cup of coffee at the same time!!!!

Suppose this Dish washer is a smart man. He will then invite other Mexican to live with him. But at this time just 3, not 6.This makes that he will live for free. (The other 3 persons will pay for his mortgage!!!)

He could save now $1260 per month. But he won't do that. Now he can spend $300 to enjoy a bit. So he can continue to pay off his house with $960 per month. So he will pay off his house in 10 years!!! (My own estimate)

Suppose this man is from Brazil!!!!! He can use that money to buy now ($200,000x2.20=R$440,000) 9 houses in Brazil. This in just 15 years time!!!!!!!!!

It will be hard in the beginning, but not impossible. This is not possible in Brazil. The minimum wage is sth about R$300.

I also know about the widening wealth gap. And I also believe it is true!! But look at the sum, and you will understand what people can reach in the USA despite this WIDENING WEALTH GAP!!!!!!!!!!!

Poverty will not be banished in 4 years in Brazil!!!!! And I did not say that! I will repeat it again for you what I said!!: If people look at them self, poverty will be banished in 4 years in Brazil!! By this I meant that Brazil can get very rich if Brazilians stop blaming their presidents and start thinking for them selves, e.g., do not make 10 children if you can not educate them, etc.

And the problem in the United States is that people over there want to live like Michael Jackson!!! Then even you, with your incapability to calculate, will not wonder that they get into troubles. Even the man himself has financial problems!!!! READ THE ECONOMIST and you will agree with me.

And one more thing SMART ASS, do not hesitate to ask me if you require some help to make a simple sum, before saying some SMART ASS BULLSHIT!!!!

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That is another prove that Brazil wants to see everybody happy.

If I meet someone like you, I will also give a caipirinha, so he will stop doing/saying stupid things.

The USA should do the same!! Bush and Bin Laden should meet each other and drink some whisky with each other so they will stop messing around!!!

LULA is the man!!!!!! You Americains can learn something from him!!!!

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Thanks for you reply. I appreciate the thought and effort you put into your posts but I am going to give you a little reality check before you actually start to believe that nonsense you are spouting.

First of all your assumption that an employee will work 180 hours a month is erroneous. 40 hours a week is standard and employers are VERY hesitant to let someone work more hours than that as they have to pay them overtime. Lets be realistic and say 160 hours per month.

Second - what happened to State, Federal and other taxes like Social Security, etc?? Uncle Sam does take a bite you know. So let me give you a more realistic figure. 160 hours a week at 8 an hour is: $1280 before taxes. After taxes figure around $1100 per month. You are already at poverty level in the US.

Third - living with 5 roommates is generally illegal in most cities. The city where I am from prohibits more than 4 unrelated people from living together but let's assume for the sake of argument that you actually find a place with 5 bedrooms and strangers who are all willing to take you in and share their home with you. Let's also say for the sake of argument that all of them turn out to be stand-up guys who pay their rent on time and don't decide to skip out on their rent when they meet a girl or find a better situation. Believe me, I have managed many properties and the majority of these situations end disastrously with someone, or multiple people, bailing out leaving you holding the bag. So assuming you are in the 1% of people who fall into this perfect situation, you will be paying at the very least $300 a month for rent (that is a modest figure). Now let's calculate your bills. I assume you are going to take showers and actually turn on lights . . . Ok so figure Gas and/or Electric, Water, Trash. These are going to run you at least $65 a month.

Fourth - your assumption that you are going to eat at the restaurant is patently false. You will either steal it and get fired or you will pay a discounted amount if you are lucky - remember we are not talking about Brazil here. Things work differently in the US. Not to mention that the boss doesn't want you in the restaurant when you are not working because you are hurting his reputation. Hurts to hear that doesn't it? Unfortunately you are a Mexican immigrant (or Brazilian as the case may be) and he or she looks at you as a liability to their business. You are good enough to hire but not good enough to be seen eating in the restaurant. If you are allowed to eat in the restaurant you likely pay full price. So that myth has been destroyed. So you are washing dishes in a hot kitchen all day and burning lots of calories. I don't know about you but when I was younger I could eat upwards of 3000 calories a day - minimum!! Food is much, much more expensive in the US so expect to pay out at least (bare minimum) $150 a month and that is not eating well at all my friend!!

Fifth How are you getting to work? I know you aren֒t even dreaming of owning a car right? You could never afford the gas, insurance and registration let alone the actual purchase price of the car. Just for fun I will throw out some figures. If you are lucky insurance will run you about $60 a month with perfect driving record and that is just for liability. Add in full coverage for your car and you can expect to pay double that. Gas just driving to and from work will run you at least $20 per week. Don֒t forget the yearly registration fee let֒s say $50 per year for arguments sake. DonҒt forget that I am giving you very modest figures. Almost everything would be more expensive than I am telling you GUARANTEED! Otherwise lets figure about $35-50 per month for the bus assuming the city you live in actually has one. Subway fare in NYC will run you much more than that. Maybe you are lucky and live within walking distance of your work but the vast majority of Americans do not!

So up to now lets do some addition genius:
$300 Җ rent
$65 bills
$150 ֖ food
$45 transportation (bus)
Grand Total: $560

Now if you only spent that much per month you would be the thriftiest American I have ever met in my life!!! I know you think you can stick to a budget and just eat and go to work and then spend the rest of your time watching TV at home right? Remember you don֒t have Cable TV either. . Now comes the dose of reality. You will without a doubt have expenditures that you did not anticipate. What about clothes, cooking supplies, utensils, soap, shampoo, etc? - I could go on and on. Remember Kiddo you are not living with mommy and daddy anymore you have to pay for everything!! So lets just add in another $100 per month (and that is extremely modest believe me).

All of the sudden you are up to almost $700 per month gone! God forbid that you ever have to see a doctor because we don֒t have socialized medicine friend. A doctor appointment will run you $75 for 15 minutes of their time. Prescription drugs like anti-biotics?? Forget about it another $50. Are you starting to get the picture here pal??

Also let֒s assume that you want to go out on a date and have dinner with a woman. That costs money as you well know. Having a social life costs. So you are down to $300-350 a month left over. What happened to $960 saved each month bud? That is long gone and you have actually saved, in a perfect world in 4 years: $14,400. WOW that is a long way from $40,000 eh pal?

So to make a long story short the bank manager is still laughing at you and not offering you that coffee as that is not even enough for the down payment on a modest home. You have also forgot that the bank doesnt just give you the money for nothing. In the modern world there is this thing called interest where the $200,000 that you borrowed is actually paid back over about 30 years and adds up to about $400,000.

Oh and inviting others to live with you when you own the home is a nice idea and all but it never works in the long term as you spend your life looking for new roommates once they begin to move out Җ and they always move out friend. But in this scenario you would not even be given the loan so you dont have to worry about it. And remember you have NEVER EVER GOTTEN SICK AND HAD TO PAY A DOCTOR IN 4 YEARS OR FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE. I could go on about medical insurance but that would just scare you even more.

The point is you are not living in reality. You would fail with that plan in America even though I have given you incredibly optimal scenarios and low costs. Prices in major cities are much, much higher and you are competing with many more people. So look over your calculations again and try coming back down to earth. I can see how you would get into major trouble in America with thinking like that. Better to keep selling mobile phone chargers or juggling at traffic lights ok friend? LOL!!!

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I think we are getting somewhere now. For the first time you have mention good arguments and backups!!!!! I can say you making progress!!!!!!

I will be open now!!! I do not any shit about USA, but that have been in Washington DC for 7 hours!!

On the other hand I have been in Europe for 16 years now, and I know that the purchasing power parity in Europe is considerably lower than in The USA. Now I want to back up my arguments, so take a look at: http://www.cia.gov/cia/publica...1rank.html

I know things here in Europe are quite different, but I am quite sure that business in USA are considerably better. At this moment I live in the Netherlands!! Again take a look at previous named site for additional information.

I have been with my parents till the year 2000. After that period I went to France. I stayed there for 10 months.

And in the year 2002 I came back to the Netherlands. Since then I have been living with 2 cousins and 1 friend. One of my cousin does monitor the house, for that reason he is living here for free. What a honest world we are living in, dont you think???????

Now I will say what I spent on monthly basil:
In euros:
Rent 250 (all inclusive)
Food 100
Additional things: 150
Total amout: 500 euros
Salary after uncle Sam: 1250 euros

So salary to be saved: 750. And this no science fiction. This is the minimum someone can earn here!!!! In the USA things are better. Once again see site above!!!

And with the additional money I meant before you can do many things!!!! 24 (0,5ltr) cans of beer costs E11,30. So for the additional money you can get a lot!!!

So if I compare living standards in the Netherlands and the USA, I was quite right the first time. That is no dream world at all. Besides that I now some Brazilian people who stays in Europe for 2 years, and saves enough money to buy a good house in Brazil. ASK YOUR WIFE!!! I am not lying, nor living in a dream world.

Back to the Mexican (or in this case, the Brazilian immigrant). I can not believe that the manager will refuse to give rice and a piece of meat to their employees, and I also doubt that an employee in the USA just works 40 hours in a restaurant on the weekly basis. In Europe the law and the reality are not the same! Besides that the European workers clocked in average 1,643 hours, compared by 1,924 for Americans!!! US News & World Report!!!!!

This shows that Americans work more than European in Average. And do you really think that employers keep to the governments rules????? Please give me a break!!!!!!!! Do you know how many illegal workers work in the USA, and how easy it is to them to get some work? So do not start with regulations or legislation, because the truth is simply quite different!!!!!

Sorry, let go back to the scope of the subject!!! The Mexican worker in the Chili restaurant! Did I state something about their tips. And do you think those people work ғwhite for 100%. Forget it friend. Please come back to reality!!!

And I am sure that in the big cities in the United States rooms are wanted quite badly!! So if someone leave the place, there will be someone else to replace him at the same day!!!!! And that person might also loose his security!!!

And what are you talking about $400,000. Did you forget that the MexicanԒs friends were paying for the interest, and that the Mexican himself was paying off his house?????? So the Mexican will pay less and less interest every year because he is paying off his house with $960. Interests will gradually decrease, and therefore he will pay off his house very quickly.

And you said something about a woman???!!!! If someone is serious he will start a relationship with a serious woman, i.e., party at home (see price beer in the supermarket above) or at some friends house. Going out just drink 2 glasses of water!!!! But if he is just after fun, he can play smart by letting the women pay for him! Please do not forget emancipation!!!! And $150 is not nothing, pal!!!(as additional expenditure).

So for the next time you come here, use your calculator well. If you digit the wrong numbers, you will get the wrong answer!!! So please pay attention on that!!!

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2nd paragraph: I do not know anything about USA (as own experience)

(I am tired now, going to sleep) I think you will understand the rest!!!

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i can bet my arse that the person in this last comment is the same i see in other articles...... tell me,why do you allways write negative comments about Brazil??? it's very clear that they have they problens,like every other country on earth,diferent problems ,but all of them have.
Well,the botton line is............... let me guess...hum..hum... lets say ,that you live in a very so call rich country but you ,yourself have nothing??nor a close family ,real friends,or who knows, maybe not even one of those fat white arses wants you.... then again the most likely thing that happened to you was that you fell in love with one of those beautiful brazilian girls and they just don't want to know about you hein??? and now you are one very bitter man...............with no choise but the fat ugly ones....good luck and try to grow up and be a bit more constructive,because in the end we all eat,shit and die the same...bye for now.

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Again you have shown that you are not really in line with reality whether in Europe or America. You mentioned that you live with 2 cousins and a friend. Your cousin is watching the house for someone? You are already living in an unrealistic situation in which most immigrants and dishwashers or immigrant dishwashers will never find themselves. Oh by the way I spent a year in ULB (Universite Libre de Bruxelles) and have many friends in Europe, including France, Belgium and the Netherlands just to name a few. I have also lived in the Czech Republic so don’t even think about bullshitting me about cost of living in Europe.

I did a little homework myself and found a few rental adds and your monthly rent of 250 Euros all included is the “I’m living with my cousin who doesn’t pay rent” special for Brazilians who can’t fly on their own yet. . .That is not the reality for most people migrating to Europe or America – you know it and I know it!

http://amsterdam.craigslist.org/apa/
http://www.perfecthousing.nl/parser.asp?xml=en_longstay_search.xml&xsl
=website_paginas.xsl〈=en&pricetop=1500&city=Amsterdam&avail_startdate=
18%20Feb%202006&avail_within=3&searchtype=newsearch

That is just an idea what normal people have to pay for one and two bedroom places. €250 doesn’t even begin to cover the rents these people are asking does it?
The cheapest search criteria for most 2 bedroom rentals starts at €850 and I can imagine what that looks like and what part of town it is in. And what about furnishings? – do you sleep on the floor without a mattress? Oh that’s right you live with your cousin and pay an artificially low rent unlike what most people would have to pay. You know you have a fortuitous situation with parents in France who I am sure tucked some money in your pocket as you boarded your train. And when you arrived in the Netherlands you already had a place to stay and cousins who would basically help you get on your feet.

As for your figures I will say flat out that I think you are lying regarding what you spend on food in Europe. I will repeat that – I don’t believe you! I don’t know any human being in Europe who eats on €100 a month. That is a lie and you know it. You may eat your cousins food and you may eat at some restaurant there but I know what prices are like in the Netherlands and what you are saying for minimal caloric intake for a young male (at bare minimum is about 2500 calories per day) is complete bullshit unless you eat bread and rice 3 times a day. Even then you could not do it. Please don’t invent things to try and justify your argument. My wife’s best friend is marrying a Frenchman and he laughed when I mentioned €100 a month for food. He laughed out loud and said you must be a little boy! Interesting you spend more on “other things” than on food – the most important thing of all. With the figures you are generating I would say you are spending most of that “other” money down at the Grasshopper smoking dope!

Next as you do not live here you haven’t the slightest idea what business is like. Rice and meat to the employees? IS that supposed to be some kind of joke? Do you think companies get rich by giving meat and rice to all their employees? I know they don’t even do that in Europe. What about the people who don’t work in restaurants but still make only $8/hour? Do you think the boss hauls out a Chuck wagon to the construction site every day so his boys can eat? THEY DON’T DO THAT ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD. GOD YOU ARE CLUELESS!! Again how do you think American businesses get rich? They work their employees as little as possible to maximize profit because labor is the most expensive part of business – that is a law of economics.

Yes some people do work more than 40 hours but those people are generally salaried people like my family. Since you obviously don’t have much experience in the world I am going to explain how that works. My sister is salaried – she gets paid $55,000 US a year. That means that all regulations regarding how many hours she legally has to work are now out the window. They can work her for 60 hours a week or more if they choose but she doesn’t get paid more. So you can see that most Americans in professional, white collar jobs are salaried and work many more hours than a dishwasher because they have agreed to get paid a higher amount but have to work longer hours. Dishwashers, waiters and construction workers do not work on salary and therefore do not agree to work than 40 hours a week otherwise their employee has to pay them time and a half. EX.. worker makes $8/hour: every hour over 40 the employee has to pay $12 per hour. American wages despite what you may think are extremely low for what an advanced country it is. THAT IS HOW CAPITALISM WORKS – CHEAP LABOR!! So the employee doesn’t want to pay this if he doesn’t have to but if he doesn’t have to. So the CIA fact book figures reflect that and do not really reflect the blue-collar jobs that most immigrants get. I don’t know many Brazilians who come to America with a limited grasp of English and start off as vice-president of Microsoft do you? We are talking about immigrants and dishwashers here bud – Remember?? Oh by the way dishwashers don’t get tips!!! Neither do most manual, cheap laborers. You are thinking of waiters and yes they make tips but they also get paid much less than minimum wage which is – Ready for this: $5.35 an hour. WOW pretty bad eh. Getting paid $8 an hour is often wishful thinking. Most dishwashers actually make minimum wage. I have been generous in all my arguments with you and you still cannot accept that things do not function as unrealistically as you think. Your argument about how many illegal aliens work in America supports my capitalist argument. Why do you think so many illegal aliens work in America? Because they can pay them like shit and they have no legal recourse. And contrary to what you do think (and since you have never actually been in the US except maybe Dulles Airport on layover) most legitimate companies would never hire an illegal as the fines are enormous. And certainly illegals never get good jobs that pay a living wage. OH AND BY THE WAY JUST HOW DOES AN ILLEGAL ALIEN GO INTO A BANK AND ASK FOR A LOAN WITHOUT PROPER U.S. IDENTIFICATION?? HOW DOES HE SIGN THE DEED FOR THE HOME WHEN HE IS NOT EVEN LEGAL??? YOU DO NOT THINK BEFORE YOU WRITE!!!

The room situation you speak of is bullshit – you have no idea what you are talking about. In America we are in the middle of a housing glut- that means there are more apartments and houses than people to fill them. You will not find a roommate just like that friend – does not work that way. And most rental agencies or home owners require ID to rent a home. Again there is that little snag in your plan eh?

Another final thing. You have never owned a home as you are staying with mom and dad or your cousin. Those of us in the real world who own homes know that interest works differently than you think partner. Interest rates are floating for the majority of people so they actually can go up over time and your payments can actually increase. Oh by the way the home that you bought for $200,000 only has 2 bedrooms so you can’t pack 4 or 5 people into the place so forget that fantastic idea too (we have laws that regulate how many people you can pack into a home those laws eventually get enforced). Your arguments are so full of holes that it is not worth debating. You have a lot of growing up to do without your cousin’s helping hand. And furthermore until you have lived in America (where girls won’t pay for your drinks or dinner dreamer) then you better stick to what you know – being a little boy who has no idea what you are talking about. And my wife laughed when she heard your comment about buying a house in Brazil after 2 years. She has several friends who came home after several years in Europe with no more than €5000. Where would you buy that house in Brazil – Rocinha?

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Here in the Netherlands we can find good funiture in the streets, this for free!!!!!

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Look friend since you are saying that so much is possible in the US then what are you doing in the Netherlands? Get your ass to America and get a job. Oh that’s right we don’t let Brazilians into America without a visa (that is nearly impossible to get). Furthermore, as an American who was born and raised there, I can tell you that the United States is full of people who have lived there all their lives and still have a hard time getting by.

When you make it into the US I will show you around south-central Los Angeles, Detroit, Michigan; Gary, Indiana or some of the “nice” parts of Alabama, Mississippi and East St. Louis, Missouri so you can see that America is not the land of opportunity that you think it is. You would be begging me to get your ass out of there before someone stabbed you in they eye with a switchblade knife!! I hate to inform you of this little fact but rich kids are the same in Brazil and America-they are given what they have. Many people who have it good in America had it handed to them just like spoiled little brats in Barra or Ipanema.

People have to work hard and study hard to make it in America too. We have to work harder than most in the world because we have to compete with the best in the world everyday. America is full of people who work hard, are intelligent and have hardly anything to show for it. You need to stop watching “America” on Globo and come back to reality. We are the 3rd largest country in the world behind China and India and have the most educated people on earth. That means that some people will work hard, be intelligent and lucky and still not make it. You simply don’t know what you are talking about.

I do believe that America offers opportunity – definitely more than Brazil but much of that has to do with our form of government, work ethic, (something Brazilian’s and most Latin Americans are clearly lacking), and a tradition of consumerism that many other countries still have not yet realized as a means of motivation. Americans are driven by their desire to consume more than anything else.

I must ask you about all the prospering Muslims in France who burnt over 2000 cars in protest and feelings of despair – are they prospering with 20% unemployment? Shit the European economy is barely afloat with high unemployment rates in France, Italy, etc. There are plenty of people in Europe who are not prospering especially if you measure prospering by the standards of the society you are living in.

This is precisely where your argument fails. You continue to think like some dumb, immigrant Brazilian who has nothing bigger on his mind than living like a fucking peasant, sharing a room with 2 other people and saving €750 a month. You are not prospering by going to a disco and begging drinks from woman (I doubt you get laid much anyway) and pinching every penny when you go shopping. You are not actually prospering shopping at the cheapest stores and finding furniture on the streets. It’s a relative thing. It’s all relative to where you came from and then it becomes relative to where you live. Sure saving €750 is ok for awhile but eventually you see the BMW’s and the big houses and you want that like any other European or American. You won’t ever have those things by saving €750 a month friend – EVER!!

What in the fuck are you talking about here - “Now for fun, let’s imagine that this friend wants to be very rich in a very short time with a minimum wage:
150- Rent
150 – Groceries (buying cheap chicken and meat, good but cheap, i.e., no fillet of beef) here I added 50 euros more because he is not working in a restaurant this time!!!!
150 – Other expenditures, i.e., transportation, going to disco 4 times a month (but just buying a few beers and other small things.
He will spend now 450. Now I will add some €75 for unexpected expenditures. (I am being very generous now!!!!) Total expenditures (maximum) = €525
He can now easily save 1250-525= 725.”

Jesus you are a piker. That you even think this is rich (or prosperous) is hilarious. That is piss money and it won’t get you a house or even a car when you don’t have a national ID and most importantly: you still don’t have the money!! You don’t know anything about America. Living in a room with 2 or 3 people is like living in Vietnam. How is that prospering? Most Brazilians I know don’t share rooms with anyone for christ sake. €75 for extra expenditures (“now I am being generous!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!” LOL!!!!!) WOW you must be one hell of a fun guy to be around. Sounds like you are really prospering to me. Actually sounds like you are just being another slave to the rich class there in Holland working for peanuts.

Let me explain something else to you friend. Living and prospering are different things to different people. On the whole you will make it in the white-collar professional world. Sure come on over to work for Microsoft like you think and find out how wonderful it is to work 65 hours a week and have no time to spend with your family. See what it’s like to start taking anti-depressants because you have a hard time finding reason or rationality in your life. Funny how you Brazilians seem to think that money is the answer yet I see more Brazilians (with less money) with bigger smiles on their faces than Europeans or Americans like my sister, mother and brother-in-law who have made more money in 20 years than you will make in a lifetime. Sure they are prospering but are they really happy compared to the guy who runs the juice bar and barely gets by but sees his wife and kids at night and isn’t blinded by material desires and frivolous plans. Someday you will realize this – hopefully before you burn out and commit suicide because you can’t stand your high paying, high pressure job anymore.

You are still in college and have some unrealistic expectations about what the working world holds for you. There are trade offs and you will learn what those are when you are a slave to your multi-national corporate job. You may make the great money like you want but you will pay for it in physical and mental health deterioration, less time spent with your family and the feeling of being used up by enriching someone else. Wait until you have had your first heart attack because your fat ass sits in a chair all day and eats shitty food - but you will find all this out soon enough. My friend Brad has a Bachelor in Business and his wife has a PH.D in Biology. They will not be able to buy a house let alone pay it off in 15 years and they are two very bright, hard working people. I doubt you will ever attain that level of earning power in your life and you want to own 5 apartments in Barra – WAKE UP!!!

Just curious – your girlfriend lives with you and you pay for her? You take trips to Brazil every year? Wow how do you manage that? Could it be help from mom and dad because we both know you are not paying for it on your own? I am beginning to think you are one of those spoiled kids you were talking about in your last post. I think there are lots of things you are not telling me because you have a really distorted idea of reality – in Europe and America.

One last thing – my wife is from Barra da Tijuca and I was there a month ago (and have spent lots and lots of time there) and you won’t be able to afford one apartment there (by your calculations) for the next 30 years let alone 5!!!!! Apartments in Barra cost as much as they do in many parts of America!!! Don’t try and bullshit me. I’ve BEEN EVERYWHERE SON!!!! I have seen more countries than you can count!!! Don’t lie to me. Just give me the name and phone number of one person who has bought an apartment while still living in Europe. WE know that is bullshit!!!!

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There are many misunderstandings between us. I would like to clear up some of them!!!! We started this discussion about the possibilities that USA offers their inhabitants. Which are great according to me! You disagreed firmly!!

You are mixing up 2 things. People who live like me and people who live like you (I assume that you must have a good life). Please do not do it any more. If someone would like to have a good live in Europe or USA; less than €3000/$3000 per month will not be enough. I also do know that.

So if you are referring to that good live, I will have to admit that you are right!!! Unfortunately you seem to have missed my point totally, so I will try to explain it to you what I meant, once more!!!

I wanted to explain to you that any one in the USA can prosper without being a genius!!! In Brazil people must have a rich famliy or be very lucky in combination with intelligence to prosper!

In USA or Europe (western countries) all people do have the possibility to prosper. Of course they will not be able to have a life like yours, but they will have to live like me!!! For the most people that is indeed very hard to do, so your wife is probably right about her friend with its €5000 after a few years (stupid friend). I know myself some Brazilians who live here for a while and who have nothing at all.

I do not blame them, as they are illegal or earn the minimum wage, and have a great desire to go out and have fun paying drinks to various girls!!!

And I have to admit that I do not have anything myself, but some depths. I am a part-time senior student in the Netherlands and have much additional expenditure, i.e., college fee, going on holiday to Brazil every year, and buying books and gifts for my girlfriend who lives in Brazil. And my girlfriend had been here with me for 5 months. So I spent a lot with the ticket and taking care for her in that time!!!! But I am not talking about people like me (who is studying, and have at the same time other degrees, i.e., Hotel managent degree) or people like you who might have a traffic job.

I am talking about people like my cousins and many many many other illegal Brazilians. People who are living here and in the USA, i.e., people who want to achieve something in their lives by saving money every month.

They know that they can not buy drinks for girls in France as the prices are skyhigh in discos. (for instance