Can this nation slide anything further down the idiot scale?

For Christ sakes Brazil, grow up already will ya! ATCs knew for 50 minutes that the transponder was not functioning but neglected to get into contact with the Legacy; ATCs ASSIGNED the two crafts to collide; it was the ATCs that lied and later feigned illness so as NOT testify during the inquiry and finally if the ATCs were AMERICAN they’d already be hanging from coconut trees in Rio. As it happens, they’re Brazilian, they f**kED UP BIG TIME, however Americans were involved and so politically it’s much easier to scapegoat those dang IMPERIALISTS.

Hey Gringo Dingo. Dito!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. Wonder what Joe Sharkey will have to say about this ? Joe, where are you!!!

You said "ATCs knew for 50 minutes that the transponder was not functioning but neglected to get into contact with the Legacy"

Distorted Lie.... ATC tried on many occasions to contact the Embraer Jet, to no avail. The american cowboys once again acting like freaking John Wayne..... Bastards! Those american pilots belong in jail for murder....


As to you "GRingo Dingo" a.sshole... The stealthing technology used to hide your brain from all attacks of reason is impressive. Is NASA designing advanced retards now?

That the pilots turned off the transponder is patently false. The NTSB report, among others, determined that the transponder was malfunctioning and intermittent, turning itself off.

The Congress reaches an indictment here, but not in any of the cases of fraud, graft, collusion with any of its own membership.

Some thing is rotten in Denmark and it is the smell of Congressional red herrings rotting in the equatorial sun.

Costa-baby, you knuckle dragging glue sniffing ball juggler; it’s quite possible that NASA has invented some giszmo to do something quite extraordinary this week, unlike your sugar cane pickers that invent nothing but stories of first world imperialism, and your politicians that invent nothing but excuses, but heck, we´ve come to expect little else from you folks.

You and your ilk are simply out of your league, and hence need the ole sacrificial “let´s hang-the-bogey-man” public witch hunts to feel better about your pathetic existences. Sure, let’s come right out and say-- contrary to all the facts--that the Americans should be “charged” during this CPI (a BURROcractic invent designed to soley to feign public interest in events while lining the pockets of the already wealthy). Why not? It will be translated on Globo into “Americans are the only guilty” which will be enough to rally the 189,000,000 cachaça suppositories that don’t read into a frenzy. But for the one million who actually do have functioning synapses and can read, they’ll pick up Veja and see they’ve been bamboozled (international ATC is calling Brazil's skies UNSAFE!): AGAIN. Although reading the Brazilian weeklies from Miami doesn’t really count, now does it?

Face it Costinha, blaming the pilots for the problems of the ATC is just a political ploy to ease air traffic for Pan, and to take attention off the rest of the countries pathetic woes… which are, in no particular order: Violence, Corruption, Stupidity, Illiteracy, Poverty, Stupidity, Nepotism, Coronelism, Stupidity, Poor infrastructure, stupidity, being Brazilian and Stupidity.

Hey Gringo Dingo. Dito!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. Wonder what Joe Sharkey will have to say about this ? Joe, where are you!!!

He´s got a new site, and is actively persuing this story again! I reckon he´s working on a book. Lula will, of course, call for a fatwa! :-/

Its a shame isn't it? Looks like Brazil will be corrupt third world for a while longer. And since when does anyone in Brazil respect that Congress? Everyone knows they steal the chickens from the Henhouse. They need the blame to go to the Americans so they don't have to give up any of that cash that normally ends up behind the fake wall in their house and use it to fix Air Traffic Control. Then they also don't have to face the music for the lack of funding that let the problem with ATC happen in the first place. Who has the agenda here? Congress maybe? ATC Maybe? the Brazilian Military maybe? They also konw those pilots will never step foot in Brazil again so they can scapegoat them until the cows come home...until maybe 20 years from now when a decent Brazilian leader has the guts to tell it like it really is.

it is a different tail ever day
GO TO BUY 30 NEW BOING AIRCRAFT
if the congress wanted they would place a no buy on the boing aircraft to force the US to
send the polits back but that would be the larges dog and pony show sence the OJ trail and we all know how that came out

in fact all reltives of the persons killed in the crash is sueing in the US not in brasil
as a dead person is worth more in the US than in brasil where life is so cheep

congress should charge itself for murder for all the killing done in there name

Simply because it shows the WORLD how blatently corrupt and predjudiced this country truly is!!! This is a shame, it is a tragedy! This country is full of THIEVES that would steal christ off the cross and come back for the nails! They are INCAPABLE of telling the TRUTH! I've ALWAYS said, they need to change "Ordem e progresso" on the brazilian flag to "Não foi eu!"

I have NEVER seen a country where people REFUSE to apologize and NO ONE is ever responsible for anything! Brazilians....a shame to humanity!

And hate to lump you all together like this, but the majority are either directly guilty or guilty by association!! When terrible, outrageous situations like this happen, and EVERYONE knows that it's a pile of horses**t, everyone just remains silent. As a current article on this site states, Brazilians organize and rally for football, carnaval, and/or to protest George Bush or the USA, but certainly never the injustices that are practices by the hundreds on a daily basis!

This is all part of a bigger corruption scandal. The can't put the brunt of the blame on the ATC's here in brazil, where it rightfully belongs, since there have been reports that only a small percentage of the budgets for air traffic here in brazil were actually spent on air traffic!! Yet another corruption scandal in the making!! Wow!! What a surprise!!


Here's an article from the Washington Post just weeks ago:

Brazil, Argentina Faulted on Air Safety
Pilots, Controllers Say Equipment, Staffing Issues Could Be Putting Passengers at Risk

By Monte Reel
Washington Post Foreign Service
Sunday, May 20, 2007; A18

BUENOS AIRES, May 19 -- Pilots and air traffic controllers have warned that shoddy safety systems could be putting passengers at risk in South America's two largest countries, prompting an international outcry for rapid overhauls of the organizations that manage air transit in Argentina and Brazil.

Increased air traffic at major airports in both countries has not resulted in corresponding upgrades of infrastructure or additional staffing, according to organizations representing thousands of pilots and air traffic controllers worldwide. The result, they say, is confusion above some of the region's most visited cities.

In Buenos Aires, for example, the only certified, long-range radar in Argentina was struck by lightning March 1 and has not been replaced, forcing air traffic controllers to manually guide aircraft -- a task some controllers say they have not been adequately trained to handle. Five "near misses" have occurred since the radar outage, according to Argentina's Airline Pilots Association.

Brazil's air traffic systems have been under scrutiny since a commercial airliner collided with a private plane over the Amazon rain forest last fall, killing all 154 aboard the airliner. Earlier this year, the Washington-based International Airline Pilots Association cautioned pilots to take special care when flying in Brazil, citing a "lack of proper governmental oversight and control" of air traffic. Since then, Brazil's air traffic controllers have instituted several work slowdowns to protest staffing shortages in a country where domestic air traffic has increased by 49 percent in the past five years, according to the country's airport authority.

The tone of the recent flurry of warnings by aviation groups has been unusually strident, according to air safety experts.

"I cannot recall -- at least in recent memory -- alerts that have been as pointed as the these concerning Argentina and Brazil," said William Voss, president of the Arlington-based Flight Safety Foundation and former head of navigation safety for the International Civil Aviation Organization.

Argentina's radar problem has provoked the loudest calls for action. Although manually guiding aircraft landings is still standard procedure in many parts of the world -- including large parts of Russia and China -- it is less common in major urban centers. It also requires staff to be specially trained and the rate of air traffic to be reduced, said Marc Baumgartner, president of the International Federation of Air Traffic Controllers' Associations.

Asking controllers to abruptly switch from radar-guided direction to manual methods without properly training them is, he said, "like asking the check-in agent to fly the aircraft."

"The controllers are overwhelmed by the task," said Baumgartner, who is based in Geneva. "What they are doing is asking aircraft to turn 100 miles before the landing and wait there at altitudes of 10 kilometers [6.2 miles], which is absolutely unknown in aviation. If it continues like this, we fear there will be a serious accident."

Argentina's Ministry of Defense, which oversees all air traffic control, continues to play down such fears. Defense Minister Nilda Garré said Thursday that Spain plans to lend a radar system to Argentina until it installs a permanent replacement later this year.

The government has also questioned whether some of the five close calls reported by local pilots in the past two months actually happened. One union representing pilots from the Argentine airline Austral also has suggested that some of the incidents had been exaggerated and that the planes were not close to colliding.

Those denials infuriate Enrique Piñeyro, whose 2006 documentary, "Air Force, Incorporated," detailed numerous flaws in Argentina's air traffic control system. One day after the documentary hit theaters here, President Néstor Kirchner announced that he would replace military oversight of air traffic with civilian control. The switchover still hasn't happened, though officials promise it will in the coming months.

"The Ministry of Defense says everything is fine, but, in reality, it's all in a state of collapse," said Piñeyro, a former pilot who has worked with controllers in Argentina to document the recent close calls. "The government's response is psychotic -- they say the near misses didn't happen. But we have clear evidence -- we have the recordings that prove it. They are just issuing flat denials without any evidence." (Sound familiar....the water!)

Brazil's air traffic control system also remains in military hands, though some critics are demanding a switch to civilian control, and Congress this week began selecting members for a panel that will investigate the country's aviation sector.

According to air traffic controllers unions in Brazil, the military has not responded quickly enough to make infrastructure improvements. Brasilia's airport has been closed twice in recent months because of radio failure, and Sao Paulo's Congonhas airport -- the busiest domestic airport in the country -- has closed an average of three times a month since December, mostly because of heavy rains. Earlier this year, prosecutors tried to close the main runway there, saying it was unsafe during wet weather and needed immediate improvements.

The Brazilian government has promised a cash infusion aimed at expanding airport capacity and has announced it will hire more than 400 air traffic controllers by the end of the year.

But JORGE NUNES OLIVEIRA, PRESIDENT OF THE ASSOCIATION OF AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLERS OF RIO DE JANEIRO, said this week that twice that many controllers need to be added to the 2,000 to 2,500 that are currently employed nationwide.

"We are still working with some obsolete equipment, and we don't have the number of professionals we need," Oliveira said. "We have four control centers around Brazil that are responsible for the whole country. They should launch a deep study of that and consider sub-dividing those."

HE ADDED: "I ALWAYS USED TO SAY THAT, DESPITE EVERYTHING, BRAZIL'S AIR TRAFFIC WAS SAFE. BUT I DON'T THINK THAT ANYMORE."

Even so, pilots organizations have not gone so far as to discourage their members from flying in both countries.

Jorge Pérez Tamayo, a pilot for Aerolineas Argentina and president of the country's Airline Pilots Association, said that pilots have been extra vigilant in recent months to try to make up for "a serious lack of investment by the government."

"The day we see that we have crossed the line and it is no longer safe, that is the day that no pilot will fly in Argentina," he said.

There are actually brazilians, a couple come to mind from this site (costa&Abe), that when they read the above article they get pissed at brazilians like Jorge Nunes Olivera, who unequivocably knows what the f**k he's talking about concerning air safety in brazil, but since it's not flattering to brazil and makes brazil appear to be responsible, they're thinking...."that f**king traitor, f**k off and die Jorge" Instead of thanking god that there are a handful of brazilians that have the balls to say the truth and hopefully improve air traffic safety for ALL OF US so we're not the next one to die because of the incompetence and corruption of the brazilian government!

They also konw those pilots will never step foot in Brazil again so they can scapegoat them until the cows come home...until maybe 20 years from now when a decent Brazilian leader has the guts to tell it like it really is.

I think the american gov't. should send 'em back here. And give them an escort of two army batallions and 5 fighter squadrons to get the attention of the entire world and make certain that THE TRUTH COMES OUT!

What a bunch of lying, thieving, pricks.

WHO WOULD TRUST A BRAZILIAN POLITICIAN OR THE FAMOUS BRAZILIAN (IN)JUSTICE DEPT....ANYWAY ????

Brazil is a Fifth World Country in many respects and is governed by Filthy people...in all respects !

The worst thing in this world, next to anarchy, is government.

until maybe 20 years from now when a decent Brazilian leader has the guts to tell it like it really is.

Poland experimented with Leh Waleska,Russia experimented with Boris Yeltsin and now we are experimenting with Lula and the congress elected democratically by us.You are right,in 20 years time, we would have learnt to elect honest leaders who would assume responsibilities for their deeds and misdeeds,instead of blaming others for our miseries.Unfortunately during the past two decades,we have been confusing "liberdade" with "libertinagem". In the next two decades, we will learn how to differentiate between these two.Democracy is indeed a slow process.

bo whitch countries goverment are you talk ing about
written by forest Brown, 2007-07-13 15:42:11

What statement are you referring to?

unless my wife and i have a child and send it to school outside brasil
at your present level we would have to rebread brasil until we bread
all the crime out of the country

brasil is not unlike we just have not gotton to the demagoge stage yet
but our goverment is trying to catch up with brasil

and now brasilians are teaching other lands on how they do business , farm , sicence , build
lie cheat seal
and who knows what else

unless my wife and i have a child and send it to school outside brasil
at your present level we would have to rebread brasil until we bread
all the crime out of the country

brasil is not unlike we just have not gotton to the demagoge stage yet
but our goverment is trying to catch up with brasil

and now brasilians are teaching other lands on how they do business , farm , sicence , build
lie cheat seal
and who knows what else

Democracy is a slow process indeed. And Democracy is far from perfect... Our current administration in the US is a perfect example of that. The Brazilians I know are decent people. And Brazilian bashing for the sake of bashing is pointless and stupid (Ch.C) and serves no constructive purpose. But this situation in Brazil... man, its like a child that tells a lie and all the adults know the child is lying because the child tells the lie 5 different ways each one more unbelieveable than the last, all the while modifying the story to try to make the adults believe it because the child has not developed that abstract reasoning yet to know no one is going to believe the lie...you know?

But this situation in Brazil... man, its like a child that tells a lie and all the adults know the child is lying because the child tells the lie 5 different ways each one more unbelieveable than the last, all the while modifying the story to try to make the adults believe it because the child has not developed that abstract reasoning yet to know no one is going to believe the lie...you know?

Son, do you think I am happy about it? No way. Brasilian bashing is very easy and entertaining for people like Ch.c and the others. The point I am trying to make is exactly like yours. There are plenty of decent Brasilians who are tryimg to make their lives, in spite of the adverse conditions. We are big fighters and adaptive and we will overcome the obstacles our politicians created (mind you, not putting the blame on the rest of the world). We shall prevail and be sure of it. Thanks for your view point. It is good to read comments from Non Brasilian bashers.

Oh I wasn't directing the Brazil bashing comment to anything you said. I agree with you too. Completely.

Oh I wasn't directing the Brazil bashing comment to anything you said. I agree with you too. Completely.

Thanks,my friend. If ever you visit our country, you will find us hospitable and friendly.

I did and you were.

did and you were.

Which part of Brasil?

Rio, Niteroi and Buzios. I have many Brazilian friends here and there.

Rio, Niteroi and Buzios. I have many Brazilian friends here and there.

So, you missed rest of Brasil ? Shame on you, No Name

So, you missed rest of Brasil ? Shame on you, No Name

Yea Yea! My life's not over yet!
But I wish they would fix ATC so I feel safe flying into Brazil. Especially over that endless sea of Amazon jungle!
Most of my friends are from Niteroi and Rio. A few from Bahia.

Which country you from? You are getting paranoic about our ATC.Our Air Force boys and girls are very very good and so no worries.It was very unfortunate what happened last year and that doesnt mean you dont have to fly over the Amazon. Come again and nothing will happen to you.

btw, are you a lady or a gentleman?

What is the Brazilian congress influence on that horrific accident is beyond me but it seems, by assessing the comments of the Americans here, that the Brazilian congressists were the responsible for operating and flying that Legacy jet on that tragic day.

What has the corruption of the congress to do with the causes of the accident? They are Brazils spokesperson. So denegrating Brazilians Congress make not a difference to the truth of this tragedy. It was a tragedy, there were responsible professionals in command and they must respond for their action.

Poor imperialists cry babies and victmized! Too unwiling and indulgent to accept any and no responsibility, that seems the Americans pilots were not even inside that c**kpit.

What amazes me is that Americans are so prompt to denigrate Brazil's image, and also so eager to invest 10 billion dollars of their money in Brazil this year. What is the fear envolving this accident? The local populace will kick you from the country and you won't no longer reign here?


So, on one hand we have a populace of 140 million of poor people assisted by ill health care and inefficient education who understandably will vote for the corrupt. On the other we have rich and filthy foreigners and local lazy and corrupt Brazilians gringo ball licker who are profiting so much in a country so corrupt and ignorant. So the question would be, this amount of money foreigners place in Brazil is to keep the country from making a new French revolution and beheading the elite?

Are you f**king kidding me? I'm so glad all of this is in print so we all have proof of some of the incredibly stupid mindsets that exist here in Brazil!!! It reminds me of so many of the small minded idiots (sorry for calling them idiots, but there is truly no other description that fits them better) I encounter at times here in my northeastern city. Their responses to tragic realities in brazil goes something like this....An english friend of mine gets robbed in his home and shot this past April 30th, nearly dies, the bullet hit the femoral artery in his thigh and he nearly bled to death, had to have emergency vascualar surgery, nearly lost his life and was damn lucky not to lose his leg. I was with him the day of the shooting up until aproximately 2 hours before the incident took place. I was interviewed on the news here along with one of my best friends, who is brazilian. I know many people in my city but many more know me, as there are not many gringos where I live. When asked "if I feel safe" by the reporter, I responded that I didn't. I also commented on the outrageous taxes that we all pay and if we want security we have to provide it for ourselves, "seguarança publica" is nearly non-existant. A few days later I see an older man that I'm acquainted with at the local mall whom is a big organizer of the PT party here in my state. He says, "I saw you on tv, are you going back to your country?" I replied, "I'm not sure, but considering it". His reply, "Well, don't they have crime in your country too?"

I simply replied, "yes, we do." And the reason why I didn't start throwing statistics out at IDIOTS like this, such as a person is 7X more likely to be murdered in Brazil than the U.S., 25X more likely to be murdered in Brazil than the U.K., and the rates for robberies, rapes, and other crimes is equally high, is because they simply won't understand. They are so blinded by some sort of twisted "nationalism" or national pride(of what I have no f**king clue), that it doesn't matter what you say to them or the facts you throw out. They have their mind made up and it's as simple as that.

Now, "Be honest once in your life"(laughing almost in disbelief at your name, but I've been here for a while so I'm accustomed to brain dead people like yourself.), do YOU understand the FACTS in this case?? You obviously DO NOT. Let me give you some that I've taken from Mr. Sharkey's site...

1.The Brazilian federal prosecutor has already made it clear in the existing indictment that there is no evidence that the American pilots (assuming they did anything wrong) acted either recklessly or intentionally.

2.It's no longer in dispute among international aviation investigators that the crash was caused by egregious air-traffic controller errors, coupled with an air-traffic control system that is saddled with antiquated equipment and that functions daily with the reality of radar and radio dead zones -- especially over the Amazon, where the collision took place.

3.There is a matter of perhaps a malfunctioning transponder on the Legacy 600 business jet. Was the Legacy transponder malfunctioning? No one has yet been able to say. There is evidence to suggest that the transponder unit in the Legacy might have had some prior technological problems before being installed in the plane that were not disclosed to ExcelAire.

-It is, of course, also possible that the transponder was accidently knocked into standby, perhaps by being inadvertently jostled by a pilot's foot. (At the bottom of this post, I'm pasting a recent safety alert on Legacy 600 jets by the F.A.A., warning operators of exactly that possibility in the design of that airplane.)

-No one but a lunatic would suggest that the pilots deliberately turned off a transponder, however.(My remark:what's new, lunatics in authoritative positions and people making irrational claims in brazil)

-Whatever the case, a working transponder and its associated collision-avoidance alarm were at best the last possible chance to avoid impact when air-traffic control had already put two planes (and this is also no longer in dispute by anyone with the sense of a cabbage) on a direct collision course at 37,000 feet, each closing in on one another at about 500 miles an hour.

And Here Is The Hook....


-It is NOT the pilots' job to monitor a transponder, we also know. It is the duty of air traffic control. And we know (again, not in disupute) that for 50 minutes before the crash, air traffic control in Brasilia, which had charge of the Legacy, was aware that the transponder wasn't functioning and, incredibly, did nothing to alert the pilots to that fact!




So, you see, at the end of the day, as our mates across the pond like to say, any way one slices it the blame is to be assigned to either 1. The Brazilian ATC's or 2. The brazilian ATC system or 3. Embraer

So, if some want to say that the americans turned off their transponder ok, that is a possibility, but it certainly wasn't intentional, malicious, or of criminal neglect. As was posted above, the FAA recently released a warning telling pilots that in that particular model of Embraer plane exists the danger of inadvertantly turning off the transponder as it is right beside a foot rest and if/when turned off does not alert the pilots in a manner that calls attention to it. But, at the end of the day, the fact still remains......It is NOT the pilots' job to monitor a transponder, we also know. It is the duty of air traffic control. And we know (again, not in disupute) that for 50 minutes before the crash, air traffic control in Brasilia, which had charge of the Legacy, was aware that the transponder wasn't functioning and, incredibly, did nothing to alert the pilots to that fact!

It was a tragedy, there were responsible professionals in command and they must respond for their action.

Well, let's put some quotation marks around the word, "professionals", mmmk? But you're right about one thing, there certainly are people responsible for this accident and the most obvious are the people that have allowed this antiquated system to exist for years while budgets that were supposed to go into the ATC system, ATC training, and the hiring of more ATC's etc, hasn't been spent on what it was appropriated for.....but par for the course in brazil!

What amazes me is that Americans are so prompt to denigrate Brazil's image, and also so eager to invest 10 billion dollars of their money in Brazil this year.

Please my man, this statement demonstrates your ignorance! 10 Billion dollars of American investment??? Woooopeeeee! That's not even a pimple on the ass of the elephant known as American foreign investment!!

Come on now, "be honest for once in your life"!!! Whom do you think needs whom here?? The statistics would make brazilians cringe on seeing how reliant Brazil is on the United States.

So the question would be, this amount of money foreigners place in Brazil is to keep the country from making a new French revolution and beheading the elite?

And there it is, the U.S. is blamed by geniuses like yourself for the military coup here in brazil, brazilians had nothing to do with it, now you're going to blame us for NOT having a revolution against the brazilian elite.....and just when I thought I had heard it all!

What’s been written are critics that can be thought of or ignored. Its been said that the global capitalism is bound to turn the world into one Brazil, the brazilianization of the US of A, where income gaps create different worlds which don’t meet within a same place. Both poor and rich are alienated from their humanity, that’s a critic. Another is the technological capitalism turn middle-classes slaves of the consumer market, their lives are defined by what they can consume and they are disempowered of their ability to change their lives and therefore the life of the underprivileged. There are 140 million Brazilians (75% of Brazil’s population according to IBGE, refer to site) who are illiterate or functional illiterates, all these people without reading one single book throughout their lives. The book market in Brazil can reach the maximum of 25% of the population. Only if middle class were able to do something together capitalism would be a different thing. Rivers of taxes would improve the lives of Brazilians if corrupt politicians were put in jails in Brazil. So that’s why I say capitalism in practice private people from their humanity, they can no longer function integrally as human beings, people have no tolerance to their and other people’s human qualities.

So, the discussion is a critic to you who defend yourselves without taking into consideration human lives, who only understand what being an American is all about. When I say be honest (and responsible) once in your life, can you take the responsibility for the almost 1 million Iraqi people murdered since 2002? It is too sad reading what Americans say about this Boeing tragedy when the world sees what’s been done by you until now. Take all that into consideration when acting and reacting.

When I say be honest (and responsible) once in your life, can you take the responsibility for the almost 1 million Iraqi people murdered since 2002?

What in the hell are you smoking jack??? One million people???? LMAO! Damn bud, if the USA can lose less than 4,000 soldiers and be responsible for killing 1,000,000 Iraqui's they must be some bad-ass mo'fo's!

Wilson to answer your question,I live in San Francisco and I am female. Wilson, I have no doubt about The airforce being able to do thier jobs, but your right. I'm a little paranoid about the equipment they have to use and the underfunding that doesn't allow them toi do their jobs the way they wish. And to "be honest for once in your life" Cause and effect. ATC has no money and poor functioning equipment and are understaffed. Why? I want you to answer that question for me in your honest opinion and then tell me one doesn't have anything to do with the other (congress) and thet they might just have an agenda regarding their wish to charge the American Pilots with Murder.. This tragic accident is "Cause and effect". Its what is possible from underfunding. Me being an American has nothing to do with that or my opinion. I'm not Imperialist, I'm a realist. I understand your anger at the US for The S**t our government has pulled, and maybe I have no business, but now the Brazil congress wants to charge the American Pilots for Murder? Common that doesn't smack of a cover up to you after all the bullsh*t pires came up with as to what happened? Loop in the sky, don't know how to fly the plane, no black holes over the Amazon, they were sleeping, They didn't follow their flightplan? Thats the point I was trying to make about the child that lies over and over again in my prevoius posting here. Every investigation into this outside of Brazil states that the problem was with Brazil ATC to the point of warnings from international air travel experts issuing warnings about Brazils airspace. Scary stuff. and Bo your statement about "they must be some bad assed mo fo's even in its context is ridiculous. Your postings are intelligent, but that statement wasn't.

So, the discussion is a critic to you who defend yourselves without taking into consideration human lives, who only understand what being an American is all about. When I say be honest (and responsible) once in your life, can you take the responsibility for the almost 1 million Iraqi people murdered since 2002? It is too sad reading what Americans say about this Boeing tragedy when the world sees what’s been done by you until now. Take all that into consideration when acting and reacting.

When we went into Iraq I couldn't believe it. I can't even begin to articulate what an idiot I think Bush, Cheny, Rice, Rumsfeld, Wolfwitz etc are. And I still can't believe 50% of our country voted for this %$#@! I think Bush and Co should be charged with war crimes. Thats how I feel about that. You can't put all Americans in the "you" context. Just like I wouldn't put all Brazilians in that context. But I have no problem putting Brazil's Congress in that context from what I know from my friends and spouse about the problems in Brazil, and scandal after scandal with Brazil's Congress. My husband will e-mail me an article about some screwed up thing Bush did and write a note saying "are we in Brazil"? Iraq has nothing to do with the Boeing tragedy. So why would I think "oh I better not say that" about Brazil's congress because my country made a really stupid tragic misjudgement that I NEVER agreed with? (Among all the other "mistakes" the US has made over the years.) Someone made a comment about government being the problem everywhere. Its true here and in Brazil, and Iran, and Venezuela, and Mexico, and on and on. Its everyone's responsibility to speak up whether its my country or another. Right is right and wrong is wrong. I have no problem with you speaking your opinion about how f*#^!d up the Iraq war is. your right.

and Bo your statement about "they must be some bad assed mo fo's even in its context is ridiculous. Your postings are intelligent, but that statement wasn't.

No Name, a ridiculous statement normally ilicits a ridiculous response. For someone to state that one million Iraqi's have died in the war in Iraq since it began is simply insane. To be honest, it's such an absurd statement that it doesn't even deserve a response. But unfortunately there are many people in the world that are very misinformed and may swallow a line of horses**t like the one he posted. And just to illustrate how ignorant that poster is, the war in Iraq began in March of 2003, NOT 2002.

And just so you no No Name, it doesn't matter to some on this site if you say you're american, that you disagree with many things are gov't. does, that you state that you don't like Bush, that you admit we make mistakes, etc, etc, etc. What you need to understand is that there are a faction of people here, in brazil, that have never sinned. They have never done any wrong, they NEVER apologize, and they have a blind sense of "national pride", why is anyone's best guess. But at the end of the day the situation is they will use any scapegoat, any excuse, to not accept responsibility. And if a gringo is involved......ohhh boy!!! That is a perfect one! They will compare everyday, "business as usual" situations here in brazil....to the war in Iraq! They will justify the innumerous injustices that exist here in Brazi in which they rank among the worlds worst by saying, "Well, you have violence in your country too", or "the U.S. is a corrupt country as well". And, they're right, corruption exists in ALL countries, violence exists in ALL countries, but they don't exist in epidemic proportions in all countries!