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Brazil Needs Help of the Rich to Stop Amazon's Destruction PDF Print E-mail
Written by Newsroom   
Thursday, 06 December 2007

Brazil's Amazon River The international conservation organization World Wide Fund for Nature (WWF) is warning that a vicious cycle of climate change and deforestation could wipe out or severely damage nearly 60% of the Amazon forest, most of it in Brazil, by 2030.

The WWF report, The Amazon's Vicious Cycles: Drought and Fire in the Greenhouse, reveals the dramatic consequences for the local and global climate as well as the impacts on people's livelihoods in South America and Brazil, particularly.

From now to 2030, deforestation in the Amazon could release 55.5 to 96.9 billion tons of CO². At the upper end this is more than two years of global greenhouse gas emission. In addition, the destruction of the Amazon would also do away with one of the key stabilizers of the global climate system.

"The importance of the Amazon forest for the globe's climate cannot be underplayed," says Dan Nepstad, Senior Scientist at the Woods Hole Research Center and author of the report.

"It's not only essential for cooling the world's temperature but also such a large source of freshwater that it may be enough to influence some of the great ocean currents, and on top of that it's a massive store of carbon."

Current trends in agriculture and livestock expansion, fire, drought and logging could clear or severely damage 55% of the Amazon rainforest by 2030. If, as anticipated by scientists, rainfall declines 10% in the future, then an additional 4% of the forests will be damaged by drought.

Global warming is in fact likely to reduce rainfall in the Amazon by more than 20%, especially in the eastern Amazon, and local temperatures will increase by more than 2° C, and perhaps by as much as 8° C, during the second half of the century.

With further destruction of the Amazon forests, less rainfall in India and Central America is anticipated, as would rainfall during the growing season in the grain belts of the US and Brazil.

Strategies to halt deforestation in the Amazon include minimizing the negative impacts from cattle ranching and infrastructure projects to rapidly expanding the existing network of protected areas.

"We can still stop the destruction of the Amazon, but we need the support of the rich countries," says Karen Suassuna, a climate change analyst at WWF-Brazil. "Our success in protecting the Amazon depends on how fast rich countries reduce their climate damaging emissions to slow down global warming."

Climate change is initiating and speeding up the vicious circle. Today, carbon from forest conversion to cattle pastures and agriculture in the Brazilian Amazon is seeping into the atmosphere at a rate of 0.2 to 0.3 billion tons per year. This number can double when severe drought increases forest fires. Emissions from all Amazon countries are double the figures for Brazil.

"The Kyoto Plus climate agreement must include measures to reduce emissions from forests," says Hans Verolme, Director of WWF's Global Climate Change Program.

"A failure to protect the Amazon forest will not only be a disaster for millions of people who live in the Amazon region, but also for the stability of the world's climate."

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Comments (89)Add Comment
Brazil Needs Help of the Rich to Stop Amazon's Destruction
written by João da Silva, 2007-12-06 22:46:30
We are already extremely rich. Things are going great for us. Now that CPMF is going to be approved and Millions of Reais are going to enter the coffer of our government, why do we need the help of other countries? We are producing plenty of Ethanol, have found huge oil reserves, got honest and hardworking politicians, our "Bolsa Familia" is keeping everyone fed and on top of it everybody is making money on BOVESPA.

In a nutshell, we can help other nations to get rich and have the know-how. So stop bitching about these idiots who complain about the "Amazon being destroyed". The Amazon is well,hale and healthy. What pisses me off is the fact that the bloody foreigners who have never come to Brasil or the ones who have just gone to Fortaleza consider themselves as experts on Brasil and give unsolicited advice.
"Now that CPMF is going to be approved and Millions of Reais are going to enter...." ??????
written by ch.c., 2007-12-07 00:16:16
But Joao....Joao.....this is NOT A NEW TAX !!!!!!
Thus you should be already rich !
Arent you ??????

And why dont you re-read Lula many statements : Amazon is Yours, therefore foreigners should not interfere. So why should we pay ? dont you remember what I wrote on that subject MORE than once ? None of the deforestation is done by foreigners. 100 % by Brazilians. And when foreigners buy some land, it is ALREADY deforested.
Yessssss Please keep the Amazon as you wish, and pay or dont pay for it.

Quite strange that you want a carbon credit when you pollute so much.

On top of that, you have around 200 millions cattles ! right ?
Did you know that ONE catlle pollutes far more than ONE car due to the methane emission ?

Of course, not a word on that subject in Brazil and on purpose ! guess why ! You want to get carbon credit.....not pay for what you pollute !


And a true news, in my country. Starting next month, January 2008, the polluting industries will have to pay CHF 12.- per ton of pollution, amount to be doubled and tripled in the not too distant future.
And Nooooooo.......no money will be paid to Brazil.....dont get excieted.
Every citizen will get a CREDIT of CHF 16.- annually in their healthcare bill ....Credit also to be increased regularly!!!!!!!
True story.
Dr
written by P. Lienard, 2007-12-07 01:08:13
Of course not, in terms of production, Brazil seems to be indeed among the first world. No doubt about that. Ont thing though, you DO NOT have many decent and honest politicians. To say the opposite is just a plain lie. You do have politicians who are mainly catering for segments of population> Money you shouldn't have as it wouldn't go to the people who deserve it, that is, the people who would keep the forest standing (por falta de nao ter nehuma otra oportunidade realmente mas eles poderia ganhar alguns dinheiro nessa situacao). Anyway the main critique is not about using your forest but it is basically to leave it to the use o a few well connected people (t least in its major and essential part). There are poepl out there doing a good job... Brasileiros!, Yes and they are the only one not getting any help from the federal states to exploit forest areas.. why? I do not know but clearly Brazil has still to understand what a free market economy means and accept that the land belongs to who owns the land and do a good use of it in a market where everyone stand on the same foot. Nationalism has been and is still a huge problem of Brazil!
To P. Lienard !
written by ch.c., 2007-12-07 05:40:22
" in terms of production, Brazil seems to be indeed among the first world. No doubt about that."

- Do your maths in per capita.
- And if you are indeed among the first world, please then explain why 20 % of the population cant afford the 2300 calories.....per day. You should rather have doubts on your own statement of.........no doubt about that.

Did you know that based upon your GDP per capita, Brazil has the WORLD RECORD OF POVERTY RATE ???????????
Sadly no doubt about that. And if wrong please name the countries with similar or higher GDP per capita where 20 % of the population cant afford 2300 calories...per day.

Making things far worse, as I said, you prefer to export food rather than feeding your own society first.

What type of Nationalism is that ?????
LAUGH....LAUGH....LAUGH....
Did you know that ONE catlle pollutes far more than ONE car due to the methane emission ?
written by Eduardo, 2007-12-07 14:01:36
Laugh..Laugh..Laugh...Imagine you making Chocolat S h i t.
Laugh..Laugh..Laugh...
Ch,C, you haven't read properly what I wrote
written by Lienard, 2007-12-07 16:20:35
I do not criticize the vew that in Brazil riches are not spread too evenly across the society. It seems to me that I claimed the opposite. What i meant is if you copmpare, for instance the industrial, agricultural and "intellectual" outputs of a country like Ethiopia or even Kenya to the Brasilian ones, or if you compare their rate of literacy or their percentage of middle class, then you have another picture. Now that resources are not spread as evenly as in European country, "no doubt about that" and that was one of my main angle to question the first commentator's position. Just that! And about thge nationalism bit", indeed the type of blunt reaction as in the first comment is a typical reaction in which you can feel that the person behing it has an agenda tainted with a tiny bit of nationalism. I am certain that he sees the buying of land by foreign companies or individuals as land grabbing and that some law should prohibit it. He probably wants to keep a "captive market" that might suits his needs and to avoid being exposed to an actual market economy (which could mean that for instance if a conservation group decide to invest in protecting a forest standing because it finds it more economically sound, regardless to the fact that the reason might be because of an irrational international market for the CO2, he would feel that it would somewhat be an "invasion" and a threat to Brazil's national security. I have had that kind of discourse so often with a certain type of Brasilian intellectuals or business men. That is in a nutshell what I meant.
Cheerio
amazon is in trouble
written by jo, 2007-12-07 16:22:01
My favorite myth in brazil is how the bad gringos (mcdonalds for exp) are eating away at the rain forest...lula has helped propagate this lie while allowing millions of acres of ew destruction by rich cattle owners and poor MST types....brazil must take responsibility for "its" land and stop the destruction from within first before worrying about rich pollution somewhere esle!
...
written by Lienard, 2007-12-07 16:31:43
And I do somewhat agree with Jo's point that that paranoia about foreigners coming and grabbing resources, land, genetic materials ("biopirataria", creations of commercial/political "empires" in the Amazonas etc.) has been too often used for political purposes by various segments in the political landscape, to such an extent that even among very educated and intelligent people those arguments linger as half-truths in the background of many conversations.
Lienard
written by João da Silva, 2007-12-07 17:44:57
Now that resources are not spread as evenly as in European country, "no doubt about that" and that was one of my main angle to question the first commentator's position. Just that! And about thge nationalism bit", indeed the type of blunt reaction as in the first comment is a typical reaction in which you can feel that the person behing it has an agenda tainted with a tiny bit of nationalism.


By saying "that was one of my main angle to question the first commentator's position", you mean me. Please confirm.

Just that! And about thge nationalism bit", indeed the type of blunt reaction as in the first comment is a typical reaction in which you can feel that the person behing it has an agenda tainted with a tiny bit of nationalism


You should really improve your spelling skill in English. However, what agenda tainted do you think I have? Please explain.

I am certain that he sees the buying of land by foreign companies or individuals as land grabbing and that some law should prohibit it.


How come you are so certain? Prove.

regardless to the fact that the reason might be because of an irrational international market for the CO2, he would feel that it would somewhat be an "invasion" and a threat to Brazil's national security.


What exactly is CO2.Explain.

Lienard, you give me an impression that you are trying to "divide and rule". Just remember that we have good American, British and SWISS allies.You my friend, is a citizen of the Evil Empire". I wonder if you read a little bit of Portuguese and what your nationality is.
"Chocolat S h i t. "
written by ch.c., 2007-12-07 19:12:02
Ohhhhh how good is your education.

1) Since when is Cocoa grown with Brazilian s**t ??????
2) And at least this Chocolate s**t produced by Swiss, is sold ALL over the world....at a big premium price when comparedi to the Brazilian Chocolate s**t....no one in the world want....even at a steep discount.

You see even Swiss Chocolate s**t is acclaimed worldwide despite we dont grow 1 Cocoa tree. You should produce more cocoa, so that price will come down....and our profit margin will go even higher. That is the Brazilian dilemna. You can produce only BASIC commodities and have no idea how to add value. Just look at your sugacane production : over 500 millions tons produced generating a loss for every ton produced. But you are so smart that you will continue expanding your production. Even doubling, tripling or quadrupling it within the next several years. And Brazil is so developed in technology that they harvest well over 60 % of these 500 millions tons...manually, while Australia harvests their sugarcane 100 % mechanically.....since 1979 or 28 years ago.

SIMPLE PROOFS OF HOW BACKWARD BRAZIL IS !

Even more so when comparing Brazil and my country total exports and imports.
Despite we have only a population of 7,5 millions and Brazil 190 millions or so, my country export/import MORE OR LESS than the whole of Brazil.
Do that on a per capaita basis and we beat you by a ratio of around 25 to 1.
Meaning that even if you double or triple again your total export/import in the nedxt decade or so, the ratio will remain at 25 to 2 or 25 to 3....provided we dont grow at all.

Conclusion : even in 3 decades you wont come close.
...
written by Gringo, 2007-12-07 20:24:14
The article is trying to pressure richer countries to adhere to drastic CO2 reduction targets, which will never happen. The US will not reduce anything and China, well.... China is China. 40% of global Co2 emissions come from these two nations. So, we can pretty much count on the globe getting hotter. Not good news for anyone and not good news for the Amazon.
As for “on the ground” in the Amazon, 80 percent of the destruction is illegal according to the MMA’s very own figures and that will not change any time in the future. Actually how the hell can it change? The government of Brazil can’t control the violence in some of the most important cities in the nation, what makes ANYONE think they’ll be able to curtail an illegal industry in the middle of nowhere? You think Rio and SP are violent? Spend some time in Para.
The Amazon is still fairly healthy (outside of Para and Mato Grosso), but this has little to do with conservation efforts and more to do with the size of this biome and the fact that Brazil ignored this region until very (relatively speaking) recently. If Brazil had paid as much attention to the Amazon as it had to the Mata Atlantica rainforest over the last 300 years then I imagine it would be in about the same state as the Mata Atlantica Rainforest, today. Almost none existent.
As for fear monger and blaming GRINGOS for everything, well this is well ingrained in Latin Cultural memes. We foreigners tend to laugh off these myths and rumours, but make no mistake about it, Brazilians take them very seriously. The fact that they fear probably the only community that could possibly help, to me, signs the fate of the forest. But not for a while I reckon, 2030? Maybe....
...
written by Lienard, 2007-12-07 23:25:10
All right let's try to respond. Yep it is you! About my English spelling skills, yep, sorry about that, sometimes I get too speedy on the keyboard and do not bother to re-read what i wrote. My sincere apologies! About the Portuguese bit, yep again, I am fluent, read and write. Though to be honest I need some practice to regain a full-blown fluency. One more thing before answering your other question with more contents, I worked in Brazil for some times and you can count my sojourns in terms of years, not months and I entertain several sustained conversations with Brazilian intellectuals. I have trained myself in a Brazilian University for soem time and in the field, in the forest
Now the core of the matter.
"What pisses me off is the fact that the bloody foreigners who have never come to Brasil or the ones who have just gone to Fortaleza consider themselves as experts on Brasil and give unsolicited advice" if that is not a bit tainted with some nationalism cum xenophobia, I do not understand anything then. Please you should acknowledge that some of the best experts on the ecology of the various ecotypes of forest you find in Brazil are bloody foreigners" and that they are working in concert with their Brazilian colleagues and that they have a pretty harmonized discourse on what is becoming of the Amazonian forest or the Mata Atlantica, not gloomy, for sure, but not complacent either.
"Tainted", maybe too strong a word though... you sound like the typical upper/middle middle class guy who has had the opportunity to study in a good school and is involved in some kind of business, probably something realted to import/export or production of goods for export, or better you are civil servant. In fact no, I go for the civil servant option. BTW are you professo of some sort? If I am wrong, display my stupidity in the eyes of everyone. I do not like stereotyping too much but when I read your nervous reaction, I could not avoid doing it. Anyway the fact that you insist on having some kind of specification on your "agenda" make me also think that you are one of the adept of those conspiration theories about foreigners coming in your beautiful country to steal what is worth stealing. But whatever, it would be too long to go into detail to explain the logics behind all that.
C02 = Carbon dioxide a compound produce among other things by combustion of fossil fuels. Do you want more?
Take care and do not forget, dialogue is the essence of democracy. Getting annoyed at other who share their thought even though they might not have a full knowledge of a situation might not be a very clever reaction.Furthermore, it happens that sometimes someone who is not fully knowledgeable of a situation might nevertheless have a very good insight into some of the problems engendering that situation. There is such a thing as "analogical thinking" you know! But to finish there my intervention, I would add that I agree with you that some people react emotionally to numbers coming from that part of the world (25% of the area destroyed etc...). Those reactions and the type of sensational views that generate them have no place in a sound debate.
Cheerio
Colonialism, Nationalism, Socialism, Capitalism, Totalitarianism, Fascism, Communism, & Greed
written by Lloyd Cata, 2007-12-07 23:53:38
******************************************************* ******
BETTER A BENEVOLENT DICTATOR THAN A CORRUPT DEMOCRAT
******************************************************* ****** (anon)

...and the worst was Greed. Greed forces people to dehumanize and disregard the lives and situation of others. It has no allegiance. It has no ideology. It has no emotion or passion. It exists for the sole purpose of possession; to own more for the sake of being able to own more.

Of the Seven Sins, Brazil stands before the altar of Greed. All of the other forms share, even if only crumbs. Greed makes you pay for the crumbs!

Llyod Cata
written by João da Silva, 2007-12-08 00:31:01
BETTER A BENEVOLENT DICTATOR THAN A CORRUPT DEMOCRAT
******************************************************* ****** (anon)


Are you talking about Kofi Anon? I am kind of "Lost"
...
written by P. Lienard, 2007-12-08 00:52:15
So I guess Joao that you are not going to respond beside a couple of abuse here or there (other article)
All right then. Shame as it could have helped me understand what are your qualms about having people from outside taking an interest in your "splendid" country. And by the way "irony" is not your strength! Neither is it for ch.c. but this might be already a bit too complex for you to grasp. Let's see how far this is going to go.
As ever
Idiots
written by A Brazilian, 2007-12-08 00:53:43
I am of the opinion that we should fill the Amazon with secret military bases while exploring its richness. Let's explore it before someone else does it! We all know how Europeans and Americans are grasshoper-like, they would consume it in no-time for their machines of death. Let'a consume it before they feel compelled to do it!

NGOs are the Nazis of our generation.
...
written by P. Lienard, 2007-12-08 01:01:19
I had a good laugh there! Congrats!
...
written by A Brazilian, 2007-12-08 01:01:36
make me also think that you are one of the adept of those conspiration theories about foreigners coming in your beautiful country to steal what is worth stealing


That's a bit too leftist for me. I know that certain people with money, from many countries, are interested not in the forest, but in the mineral wealth underneath its soil and other things. That's not the same as saying that other countries are interested in it, but saying that some people are, and with their money they can finance/influence/pay others for "protecting" their profit.

That's it. It's not a conspiracy from other countries, but just a very few people in those countries doing what they always do: Business. It's all about money, it always was (even during the colonization time) and always will be.
...
written by A Brazilian, 2007-12-08 01:04:57
Just a complement. As you know, people powerful enough can influence military decisions of some countries and even convince the public opinion that action is needed for avoiding some "terrible evil". That's what those NGOs stand for, teenagers and youngsters seeking for a meaning in life financed by the money of those who pull the strings.
...
written by P. Lienard, 2007-12-08 01:09:50
Ah! Finally an argument spelt out without anger. Ok but don't you think that in a democracy with a free market economy you would be able to act also in the same way for reason that might be more "pro-social". Minerals and other basic goods might be important but we do know that many other things count. Have a look at the market for water and all the it has brought in terms of concerns for functioning ecosystems in the USA. River, swamp etc. restoration is becoming a huge business. And the actions that are taken are understood as economically rational (that is, to invest $ bln in it) because of the huge cost that it would entails if it were not done (flooding, etc.).
...
written by P. Lienard, 2007-12-08 01:18:46
Don't you think that some NGO's do a good job without any hidden agenda?
I do agree that some NGO's have been associated to some obscure funding bodies (Greenpeace at its beginning, for instance). But I do not think that I have seen any defintie proof of that. If indeed it is the case, case by case they should be revealed! That is what good journalism is about really. But making a huge amalgam and stating that NGO's are the Nazis of our generation seems to be a bit excessive. First of all it trivialize what the Nazis were.
...
written by P. Lienard, 2007-12-08 01:22:02
Also I believe that you ever be able to get rid once and for all of such risk even if you were to ban all NGO's, such struggle for nfluence would be expressing themselves in other forms/ways
...
written by P. Lienard, 2007-12-08 01:23:34
I meant "never be able to get rid...
Cheers
Peter Lie Hard
written by João da Silva, 2007-12-08 02:01:39
While I was having a leisurely dinner, you were throwing dirt on me. Never mind. I could make out that you saw everything in Brazil and continue reading sporadically about her and learn 't nothing,which of course is very common to foreigners like your good self. You guys seem to consider yourselves as some sort of experts on Brazilian Affairs. There again, never mind. I am not as rancorous as Ch.c or "A Brazilian". Now it is my turn to respond:

Yep it is you! About my English spelling skills, yep, sorry about that, sometimes I get too speedy on the keyboard and do not bother to re-read what i wrote.


It demonstrates you have never heard of FIREFOX that has a built in Spell checker while you comment on this website.Of course, you also assume that we Brazilians cannot detect gross errors you make while spelling as well as commenting about our country.

My sincere apologies!


Accepted

Tainted", maybe too strong a word though... you sound like the typical upper/middle middle class guy who has had the opportunity to study in a good school and is involved in some kind of business, probably something realted to import/export or production of goods for export, or better you are civil servant. In fact no, I go for the civil servant option.


Blew it again. Never went to any school, nor belong to any class. Ours is a class-less society.I hate civil servants (you must be a Brit).

Anyway the fact that you insist on having some kind of specification on your "agenda" make me also think that you are one of the adept of those conspiration theories about foreigners coming in your beautiful country to steal what is worth stealing.


Conspiration theories? LMAO. The bloody foreigners can come and buy whatever they want, provided they have money and a legitimate visa. So if you want to save the Amazon forest, you can buy a part of it. Didn't George Soros buy a huge piece of land in MT? Even your pal, Ch.c has a large piece of land in BA.

C02 = Carbon dioxide a compound produce among other things by combustion of fossil fuels. Do you want more?


Nope. I know what CO2 is.

There is such a thing as "analogical thinking" you know! But to finish there my intervention, I would add that I agree with you that some people react emotionally to numbers coming from that part of the world (25% of the area destroyed etc...). Those reactions and the type of sensational views that generate them have no place in a sound debate.


Actually, I am in favor of the suggestions of "A Brazilian". The military has to be in command.Just to give you an idea, the last military President of Brasil did open the mining to poor miners (Garimpeiros) with military officers running the operation.It did work out well.I think "A Brazilian" is suggesting the same model. You can check it out with him
A Brazilian is truly an idiot.
written by Gringo, 2007-12-08 02:21:12
A Brazilian, you’re not the brightest lamp on God’s Christmas tree are you. In another blog you claim “there is no racism is Brazil” which has to be about one of the most factually naive and retarded comments ever written because even if racism were not as overt as it is in the US and in many European nations, it still exists in Brazil. To say otherwise is just plain lunacy. There's enough racist Brazilian skinhead sites on line to keep you reading for weeks.

Now you are comparing NGOs to Nazis? You may wish to open up a history book or two before repeating that idiocy just to get a better idea of what the Nazis actually did, and waht NGOs do. For the most part NGOs do what your government is incapable of or not interested in doing – HELPING OTHERS. NGOs, whether humanitarian, ecological or faith based pick up your governments slack (which there is a lot of). Also, they are very diverse; for you to lump them all under one umbrella is equally as intellectually fraudulent as saying there is ZERO racism in Bananaland.

And in another blog you went off on a tangent defending the military regime from 64? I thought you nationalist knuckle draggers blamed the US for the military dictatorship? Now it was the proud men and women of the Brazilian armed forces who saved Brazil from the evils of communism? Maybe you are watching too much FOX TV “support our troops bulls**t”seeping up the US”?

f**k, no wonder Brazil is in such a dismal state, look at the morons within its borders.

Just a complement. As you know, people powerful enough can influence military decisions of some countries and even convince the public opinion that action is needed for avoiding some "terrible evil". That's what those NGOs stand for, teenagers and youngsters seeking for a meaning in life financed by the money of those who pull the strings.


Wow, that made NO SENSE AT ALL.....
...
written by P. Lienard, 2007-12-08 02:27:21
I am using firefox... and thunderbird! And indeed it checks. But you just do not read what I wrote. I do not quite understand your feeling when you seem to be pissed about MY wrong spelling as if it was in any sense saying anything on your level of education.
I was not throwing dirt on you and I do not pretend to be an expert inre Brazil. I am interested in it and have listened to many Brasileiros complaining about it. I studied in depth the politics of geography in Brazil and I work with various communities that you could qualify as poor. Humbly, if I may say, I have had to understand nitty gritty of local politics. I understand some things, not a lot but enough to understand some general mechanism that structure some segment of your society (without pretending to be an expert... whcih does not mean that I cannot speak my mind on subjects touching upon Brazil).
Nevertheless you have learned English and better than I have apparently if I follow what you are telling me (no I am not a Brit and I know how Brit are not too much liked in SA if I follow all the saying that I could here over there). And you own a computer and have the luxury to spend time in front of it so clearly you are not from Piaui (where btw I happen to have family) so life seems easy for you (as it is for me so far). But I agree on that one I might be wrong though I suspect you tweak your thoughts when you have to express them here online. I am still persuaded that if we were to talk eye to eye, you would fall back on your xenophobic assumptions. But hey! this is as much a pure aggression of my part as your opening in your last message.
So may I ask why you ask me what CO2 menat. I must say I have a hard time figuring out why you brought that up.
And the saving of the Amazon was in no sense part of my agenda. It was just an example for another correspondent to have a genuine discussion about free market, benefits and the potential to have the right influence on a situation judged wrong. Just that! And just so you know, I agree with one of the other previous intervention that in the actual situation, funding for suppressed deforestation would be a nonsense (in the case of Brazil) exactly for the reason evoked in the same intervention.
I won't even respond to the last bit of your intervention
Cheerio
Gringo
written by P. Lienard, 2007-12-08 02:36:55
Hey Gringo! I probably share many of your views but you win at saying things in a lighter tone. Showing someone is wrong and inconsistent as you did is excellent but insulting someone forces him to refuse to review his beliefs. Expose and reveal the other one's shortcoming over and over again gently. Bring people into an interaction and work them slowly just by proper argumentation and logics.
Cheers
NGOs are cancer
written by A Brazilian, 2007-12-08 03:15:18
There's enough racist Brazilian skinhead sites on line to keep you reading for weeks.


I don't know of any, do you? Which sites have you been seeing?

You may wish to open up a history book or two before repeating that idiocy just to get a better idea of what the Nazis actually did, and waht NGOs do


They are a bunch of blood sucking leeches, the byproduct of an European longing for a time when it was powerful enough to have empires. Look at Africa, NGOs are the neo-colonialism. Not only they keep things the way they have always been, but also receive millions of dollars from "benefactors" (those who pull the strings) and suckers all over the globe. Everything to the pocket of a few for not doing anything.

Most Nazis were led to believe in some very urgent question that thretened everyone's life and they gave their lives for it. Some just needed an excuse for acting like a beast, some others were used, some were affraid of standing up against it, and there were even some that stood against it and died for it. NGOs do just that, provide a meaning for people's life, which involves some "terrible evil".

One of the examples I give is the insistence of the international oeganizations about Indian land demarcations. The detail is that all the land happens to be rich in several minerals, just like "Raposa Serra do Sol". The minerals in that region, just by coincidence happen to be needed by the aerospace industry, such as niobium. Get a clue, NGOs are a cancer!

EVERYTHING about NGOs is business.
...
written by P. Lienard, 2007-12-08 04:27:11
Gee! I do not believe what I read! Do you actually believe what you are saying? Just plain amazing!
Colonialism, Nationalism, Socialism, Capitalism, Totalitarianism, Fascism, Communism, & Greed
written by Lloyd Cata, 2007-12-08 11:01:23
João
- Are you talking about Kofi Anon? I am kind of "Lost" -

All of these ideologies the people can tolerate, even accept and progress, but when you add 'Greed' to any of the others the misery of the people turns to anger and violence.

The Western Powers could have lived with Hitler, but he got too greedy. When he took Poland and France it was not that big a deal. They were still willing to do 'business. If he had not attacked Russia, we would probably have a 'Greater Germany' today. Greed destroyed him. That is one of the marks of a true 'tyrant'; they don't know when to stop. The last crumb must be payed for in blood.

So you see that the Russian people are more pleased with Mr. Putin, a true Communist, than the American people are with Mr. Bush, a true Capitalist. Mr. Bush's greed is evident in the policies of making his friends rich, squeezing the middle-class, and raping the poor; ala New Orleans. Perhaps Americans would not like Mr. Putin, but Mr. Bush is hated around the world, no? Greed.

In the recent Venezuelan referendum, Mr. Chavez may have passed modest proposal to increase his standing, but he got greedy and wanted too much too fast; and he now understands this. Good for him, and better for Venezuela.

When will the greedy oligarchs, and corrupt politicians, and narco-traffickers understand that their greed is the fuel that will feed the fire to again destroy Brazilian society? When will they admit that every Brazilian has value to Brazil? There is nothing wrong with honest profit, but greed creates true suffering. So when you see true suffering in a society you know it is because someone is being greedy.

Chairman Mao had to kill 30 million Chinese, maybe more, to exterminate the same people from Chinese society. Now he is revered for saving China. Lessons are sometimes difficult; it's the hard ones you remember!
Keep writing A Brazilan, with every keyboard punch registered, your fame for being stupid grows
written by Gringo, 2007-12-08 13:25:48
Gee! I do not believe what I read! Do you actually believe what you are saying? Just plain amazing!


Believe it! And don’t worry; he’ll keep aping that ilk of synaptically dysfunctional paranoia forever. I don’t review the comments of this site often, but when I do, I can count on A Brazilian coming up with some of the most rabid, right wing, delusional bafflegab going. The problem is that A Brazilian DOES represent the mindset of many in this nation already suffocating under the weight of collective stupidity. Figures from last week`s international math and reading tests prove this.

Now to trutinho....

Which sites have you been seeing?


Mostly news sites in the south that report about these “nonexistent” racists in Brazil, and how many keep their poisonous sites based in Argentina because of cheaper internet connections and even LAXER anti-hate laws. The fact that you don’t read the dailies is obvious given your head in the sand mentality.

They are a bunch of blood sucking leeches, the by-product of an European longing for a time when it was powerful enough to have empires. Look at Africa, NGOs are the neo-colonialism. Not only they keep things the way they have always been, but also receive millions of dollars from "benefactors" (those who pull the strings) and suckers all over the globe. Everything to the pocket of a few for not doing anything.


Actually the last line you wrote sounds more like a Brazilian politician than an Ongeiro...he hehe

OK trutinho, Like I wrote above, NGOS appear in nations/locations where governments don’t act, or an incapable of acting on behalf of its citizens. You gave the million dollar example: Africa. If it were not a continent so ripe with corruption and incompetence (the fallout of past colonial efforts) you’d NOT see as many groups trying to help. Brazil has many NGOs too because quite like the continent of Africa, corruption, nepotism, greed and sheer ignorance reign; so it is up to others to step up to the plate and take on certain tasks or pressure the governments to do their jobs. You blame NGOs for being greedy, but its NGOs demanding debt relief for most 3rd world nations– so how does that work if you think these groups are just out to steal, oh great barer of knowledge?

Most Nazis were led to believe in some very urgent question that thretened everyone's life and they gave their lives for it.


What? Like uhm, being lead to believe that foreigners and NGOs want to take over the Amazon? Gawd you’re an idiot. BTW, the rest of that your rant in that paragraph makes no sense.

One of the examples I give is the insistence of the international oeganizations about Indian land demarcations.


Well, again, if the Brazilian government had demarcated all the lands by 95 like PROMISED in the 88 Constitution, then all would be hunky dorey now, né trutinho? But again, the government didn’t do its job OR what was promised to native groups and now NGOs are stepping up to the plate to pressure the government to act, or aiding the indigenous groups in the protection of their lands from GRILEIROS (remember 80% of what happens in the forest is usually ILLEGAL) until the government gets of their corrupt incompetent asses in gear and sets forth with policies to fulfil the Constitution. You know that little book that lays out a vision for Brazil written by Brazilians?

The fact that you draw comparisons to Nazism and NGOs is just infantile. Only an angry little boy would argue something so blatantly fraudulent, and to be quite honest, so horrifically offensive to the honor of those whom died and suffered at the hands of Nazis. But like I’ve written, I’ve come to expect that from you.
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written by P. Lienard, 2007-12-08 14:25:10
Beautiful response. I could not have done better. But I am still amazed at how some people are just so blind and delusional! Scary really!
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written by João da Silva, 2007-12-08 18:36:34
You know that little book that lays out a vision for Brazil written by Brazilians?


I remember the "Little Book" and comments made by two eminent jurists, one on a national level and another on State level (this one is a good friend of mine). The one on the national level got drunk when the little book was approved and was laughing his ass off.The latter confided in us that "It was not written for the present nor for the future, just to please the 'falso sentimento latino' ". Now we have the "Little book" and thousands of lawyers in profitable businesses to interpret it.It is very sad when you find out that an average Brazilian does not even know what is "Consitução". He gets confused by "Constipação".

"Little book" sounds as ominous as "Mein Kampf".smilies/grin.gif

BTW, both the old boys are still alive and lucid.
Gringo
written by A Brazilian, 2007-12-08 21:54:35
If it were not a continent so ripe with corruption and incompetence...


And you are the one accusing other of racism... Hahaha.

The problem is that Europe and some Americans act too much paternalistically towards Africa, treating them as if they were little children incapable of taking care of themselves, because there are important resources there. It's just business and keeping them "needy" is the best course of action for now.

If they were really interested in humanitarian goals they would leave them solve their problems by themselves. Just leave them alone. For example, giving away clothes completely obliterates any local industry that could ever appear. Who is going to buy clothes if you can get it for free? But you can't afford not negociating with them, and that's why they have so much unwanted attention.

The same applies for Latin America. The very idea that the people could manage everything by themselves goes against the interests of many rich individuals. Fueling the notion that Europe must "intervene" in order to stop some "big evil" is just the kind of bulls**t we all have seen already in the history of mankind and that led to the death of thousands.

I am not saying that countries are in it, but a very few powerful individuals are interested in it, and therefore they can influence "public opinion" in different ways in order to secure them their goals. UN would like to demarcate Indian lands and treat them as independent lands. Why? Because it's easier to cheat Indians into disavantageous businesses and they would have it assured that they, the indians, would be incapable of defending their land against any modern army. The logic is "divide and conquer".
Lienard
written by A Brazilian, 2007-12-08 21:58:22
He is an ignorant. He must be one of those that know only about World War II what he has seen on "Saving Private Ryan". Please, lots of people died in WWII and many Germans as well. The comparison is to illustate the imperialistic urge that NGOs stand for. Do some research on NGOs first and who finance them.
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written by A Brazilian, 2007-12-08 22:15:26
Just a complement. NGOs are a new way some people found to intervene in other countries in order to further their own agendas, regardless of what the people living there think. This is a recent development in human history.

As an example I give the network of feminist NGOs that promote abortion. We all know the history of sterilization and abortion. They were intended to keep "inferior races" in low numbers in order to avoid them growing too much and, therefore, threaten the "master race". That was in the beginning of the XX century and the founder of the NGO called "Planned Parenthood" was actively involved in Eugeniticists organizations by then. Now the money flows to those organizations for promoting "abortion" worldwide, but nobody mentions their dark pasts. They have created this "noble goal" which is worth fighting for, deceived a bunch of morons and now intervene in the policies of several countries. This is what NGOs a